easiest country to invade?

[KitAkira]

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Exactly. Mercenaries have several liabilities that come with them: 1) Command and control issues, especially if you have no military experience or credibility yourself. 2) Potential language barriers, especially if you're pulling from a variety of different cultures. 3) Numbers. Despite how well-trained many of today's mercenaries are (and many of them are extremely well trained), there aren't that many of them floating around out there. Even with $50B at your disposal, you're not going to levy an army of more than a couple hundred thousand mercenaries of any appreciable skill level. And that's at most. Yes, but they're really part of the same conversation. Like I said, I don't understand the point of taking over a country if you don't intend to hold it afterward. If we're serious about this intellectual exercise, we really need to try to follow it through to its logical conclusion. Taking over a country and not bothering to hold it is sort of like making a delicious meal, and then throwing it in the garbage rather than eating it. IMO, if you're going to talk about hypothetical invasion plans, you should take into account contingencies and plans for the aftermath. I don't think that's an unreasonable line of thinking. In fact, I think it's unreasonable not to consider those things. Or at least unrealistic.
Is this supposed to be problematic? Many African countries don't even break into double-digit thousands

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

And your point is? I brought that up because the poster I was responding to had assumed he was simply going to waltz on in and change those dynamics by building roads and hospitals and ****. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that easily. The instability is part of the game, and addressing it realistically should be part of the game. This isn't like playing Monopoly or something. "Oh, I'm going to buy Marven Gardens and build a hotel on it. La dee da."

This is "I'm going to buy Marven Gardens, and oh, wait, wtf...the Marven Gardenians are pissed off at me and blowing up my hotel. ****."
You thought I was going to need millions of mercenaries sitting around. That's what the native army is for, at most a few hundred mercs would stay to train them (though it'd be more likely that another military power would send some)

Originally Posted by globetrotter

I think that getting an army of more than 1,000 or so serious mercenaries would be impossible for a private citizen to do today. aside from anything else, you'd need a staging ground, who is going to let you gather together and train an army? I was thinking that any project that required more than a few dozen wouldn't work. and the trick would be taking it over, and then handing it to a local person who you control and who pays you "rent"
A neighboring country unhappy with the current government wouldn't be opposed to the idea (look at how many countries directly support coup attempts)

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Taking over a Central or South American country, or even an African country, would be unrealistic for a nonnative with no local ties to the population and no groundswell of local support. i think the best-case scenario possible for this game would be a Cuban native returning to Cuba with a reasonably sized militia and several years of legwork secretly arming and gaining support of a faction of Castro's military. So when you landed on the island, if everything went to plan (big if), those you've bribed or persuaded to your side would rise up with you. But, as I've pointed out earlier, look at how well the previous Bay of Pigs attempt went...
Islands aren't a good choice, most have a peak of some sort that's heavily forested. Any opposition can retreat to the hills and mount a decently effective guerrilla campaign. Cuba also has a modern air force and support from a number of nations (including China)

Originally Posted by Mountains

89 posts in and no one has thought of Belgium? Come on, the country was practically made for invasions.
And you'd have NATO on your ass the moment you set foot on Belgian soil.

 

[hendrix]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

IMO, New Zealand would be a great choice. They have drinkable wines, a diverse climate and geography, island and fairly remote from the big powers. Plus, hobbits and elves live there.

Originally Posted by Mr Herbert

new zealand probably


we have one of the best SAS groups in the world. our army is small, admittedly but it's fairly well trained.

our air force, well that's another story.

 

[JustinW]

Originally Posted by hendrix

we have one of the best SAS groups in the world. our army is small, admittedly but it's fairly well trained.

our air force, well that's another story.

*Insert Kiwi sheepshagger joke here*

 

[Trompe le Monde]

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Hence the reason why I really don't like playing the whole "You have $50 billion" game with this scenario. $50 billion is more than any of us will ever realistically have to fund a mercenary force.

We can't just ask ourselves what country we'd like to take over.

Otherwise, what's the point of taking over?

These are the conditions proposed in the starting post; have you read it?

 

[johnapril]

Blockbuster video

 

[Trompe le Monde]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

but it is hard to put together anything but a very small group of mercenaries without a really good leadership - you get 200 mercenaries together its not easy to keep them from killing each other

Originally Posted by globetrotter

I think that getting an army of more than 1,000 or so serious mercenaries would be impossible for a private citizen to do today. aside from anything else, you'd need a staging ground, who is going to let you gather together and train an army?

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

I think more than 1,000 is doable if you've got $50B and can bribe local militias or cartels to do your bidding.

When I say 100,000, I'm talking about an absolute best-case scenario.

Things like "Oh, I'll just hire a million soldiers and buy a bunch of planes and tanks and advanced weapons!" LOL. And store them where? And transport them how? And train/quarter your men where? Etc.

Not to mention the fact that many local warlords in many countries have plenty of their own men, their own armor, their own missiles and artillery, etc. Most of them are probably lacking in credible airpower, but with SAM installations and stingers, they don't really need air defenses.

I think the absolute best-case scenario would be to raise anywhere from 1,000 to 20,000 mercenaries and a small fleet of barely-seaworthy speedboats -- plus maybe a rusted old cruiser, or some diesel subs from a former Soviet bloc nation, if you're lucky -- and a shitload of rockets and guns, and go lay siege to a small island nation that is not under the formal protection of a local or international power. You could take the island relatively easy, install your mercenaries as the new government and military, and so forth. This plan would almost certainly require the backing of a major nation as your patron and underwriter, as I've said earlier




-2000 "security" contractors deployed in 7 countries; 1000 alone in service to US Government; 35,000 men under training (as of 2007)
-5000+ acres of private land near atlantic coast used for training scenario -- swamp, land, hills, etc
-subsidiaries with armored vehicle and aerial fleet (helicopter, cargo/carrier craft, etc)

these are attributed to a single company--XE (formerly Blackwater).

contractor rates are *550-800 per day. straight pay. they are not IBM, no perks or benefits. 250k effective salary. (50b retains the services of 200,000 men for a calendar year).

*these contractors bill the US government 1,500 per day for fully self-sufficient operations. this includes overhead cost of training, transportation, supplies, meals, and one presumes a fat margin.

the modern defense contracting market is almost purely USA/UK based. english speaking countries, yes. their employees thus all share similar military background. (further, western elite military perform cross-training). in the post 9/11 world its been shown discipline is maintained (within a unit). they are bonded by money, but are loyal to each-other.


although the entire exercise is fully hypothetical, isnt it a tad silly to construct your own realities while ignoring facts???

 

[Trompe le Monde]

Originally Posted by lanlan450

===
i will invade your website bro if you dont knock this **** off

 

[onix]

Originally Posted by Trompe le Monde

i will invade your website bro if you dont knock this **** off

Don't quote them, it's harder for mod to clean up. At least remove the link from your quote.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by gdl203

Arizona

You're too late.

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by Trompe le Monde

-


although the entire exercise is fully hypothetical, isnt it a tad silly to construct your own realities while ignoring facts???

Blackwater is a very unique example - basically their main (and possibly only) customer is the US government. they have a free hand to recruit, train and house mercenaries on US soil, and probrably anywhere else they want. in their operations they have people who were colonels, and possibly generals, working for them, and they are able to subject their people to US law and law enforcement. and they recruit entire military units, or large numbers of people who trained together and served together in units of the US miltiary.

nobody else really has the type of luxury, there are a few british companies like that, but they are also selective on who they work for.

as to "my own realities" - I am guessing that there are only a couple of us here who have actually spent some time working in this world, and have a little expience with how it works. you want to learn about it, feel free to pay attentiion.

 

[Trompe le Monde]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

Blackwater is a very unique example - basically their main (and possibly only) customer is the US government. they have a free hand to recruit, train and house mercenaries on US soil, and probrably anywhere else they want. in their operations they have people who were colonels, and possibly generals, working for them, and they are able to subject their people to US law and law enforcement. and they recruit entire military units, or large numbers of people who trained together and served together in units of the US miltiary. nobody else really has the type of luxury, there are a few british companies like that, but they are also selective on who they work for. as to "my own realities" - I am guessing that there are only a couple of us here who have actually spent some time working in this world, and have a little expience with how it works. you want to learn about it, feel free to pay attentiion.
(1) they also cater to private clients, for example protecting petroleum assets (2) how can XE train anywhere they want?? whether they can or cannot, how is this different from the other US-based PMCs??? you said there is no place and no provisions for stage an army, i cited an example of such a place... now you flip backwards and make all sorts of wild claims (3) "they are able to subject their people to US law and law enforcement"

(4) "and they recruit entire military units"

(5) "or large numbers of people who trained together and served together in units of the US miltiary". all PMCs do this.. theyre not exactly recruiting teenagers from shopping malls (6) 'as to "my own realities' - I am guessing that there are only a couple of us here who have actually spent some time working in this world" more vague nonsense. i didnt fly last night from london to stavanger for vacation. i directed the comment at Arrogant Bastard who dismissed our playing Risk while staging his own rusted speedboat Stratego scenario. but, seeing as youre equally clueless to about the subject you'd too benefit from a little research before posting

 

[Manton]

This mercenary talk is very amusing. You all need to read Prince XII-XIII and then study some history. Only globe has this right.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

here's the deal, mercenaries are about 1000 times better trained and more disciplined than the armeis of most of latin america, Oceana and africa. but it is hard to put together anything but a very small group of mercenaries without a really good leadership - you get 200 mercenaries together its not easy to keep them from killing each other. if you get a good leader, you face the problem of controling him.

there is also a big difference between taking the place over and hollding it,

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by Manton

This mercenary talk is very amusing. You all need to read Prince XII-XIII and then study some history. Only globe has this right.
Too hard. Please post bullet points.

Manton, I thought you were on self-expulsion from the forum?

 

[Valor]

Brunei would be an idea target. Minimal defense, ability to maintain stability and +ROI

 

[em36]

And what would Malaysia and Singapore do, sit on their hands, or use their impressive air power in concerted fashion, and within cooperative defense relationships, to destroy you.

The Mark Thatcher affair proves great powers, and regional powers, have zero tolerance for such endeavors.