Dress for a 'fine" dining experience in America

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by kennethpollock, Jul 15, 2006.

  1. stach

    stach Senior member

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    The obvious solution is to hire a chef and server for the evening in your own home and have the dining experience to your specifications.
     
  2. Edward Appleby

    Edward Appleby Senior member

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    I hope this thread doesn't devolve into "let's bash those uncultured Southern cities," because it certainly shouldn't be a problem for a truly "experienced" diner in any reasonably large city to find quality ethnic food. I live in Houston and found a pretty authentic Szechuan place this past week thanks to the Houston Press, and tonight I enjoyed a wonderful takeout meal from an Indian restaurant that was packed, with myself being the only non-Indian customer there. I really doubt anyone who actually appreciated the variety of different cuisines and wasn't just dining for show or some other superficial reason not related to pure enjoyment of food would have trouble finding the same in Atlanta.
    Of course, Houston's the fourth largest city in the U.S. and a port, so it's not really fair to compare Atlanta's ethnic food to it.

    As far as the bringing your own wine and crystal goes, the wine itself is of course very common. But why would you want to bring your own glasses?
     
  3. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    As far as the bringing your own wine and crystal goes, the wine itself is of course very common. But why would you want to bring your own glasses?

    If you're talking about wine glasses, mediocre wine glasses can detract from the taste and experience of a good wine, so some people will bring their own.
     
  4. Edward Appleby

    Edward Appleby Senior member

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    If you're talking about wine glasses, mediocre wine glasses can detract from the taste and experience of a good wine, so some people will bring their own.
    Unless you're drinking a 95 Petrus or something, I find it hard to believe that the motivation comes from any noticeable difference as much as the pretentions to snobbery to which LK alluded.

    I think there's an anaolg in the home audio community: blind tests and science both support the fact that the only differentiator between speaker wires is resistance- so, wires of a given gauge provide the exact same performance regardless of whether or not they're oxygen-free or what have you. Despite this, audio magazines are full of glowing reviews of multi-thousand dollar speaker "cables." Why? If you're looking for an improvement, you'll hear it (or taste it.)

    Moreover, it's hard to see how the practice of bringing one's own wine accoutrements could be polite, unless you're going to a restaurant which has nothing more than a house bottle. If the establishment has any sort of wine stock, much less a sommelier, it seems to me that bringing your own glasses et al is stating rather clearly (and crassly) that your restaurant's not good enough for my refined ass.
     
  5. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    If you're talking about wine glasses, mediocre wine glasses can detract from the taste and experience of a good wine, so some people will bring their own.

    IMO that's not very sprezzatura. Walking in to a place carrying your own glasses strikes me as kind of anal and not very elegant. I guess it depends on what you care more about - your sprezzatura factor or the marginally better taste of your wine.
     
  6. Violinist

    Violinist Senior member

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    Unless you're drinking a 95 Petrus or something, I find it hard to believe that the motivation comes from any noticeable difference as much as the pretentions to snobbery to which LK alluded.

    I think there's an anaolg in the home audio community: blind tests and science both support the fact that the only differentiator between speaker wires is resistance- so, wires of a given gauge provide the exact same performance regardless of whether or not they're oxygen-free or what have you. Despite this, audio magazines are full of glowing reviews of multi-thousand dollar speaker "cables." Why? If you're looking for an improvement, you'll hear it (or taste it.)

    Moreover, it's hard to see how the practice of bringing one's own wine accoutrements could be polite, unless you're going to a restaurant which has nothing more than a house bottle. If the establishment has any sort of wine stock, much less a sommelier, it seems to me that bringing your own glasses et al is stating rather clearly (and crassly) that your restaurant's not good enough for my refined ass.



    To be fair, very thin crystal and a properly shaped bowl really does help a lot. The restaurants with these super thick glass things with no real room in them always kind of depresses me...
     
  7. CTGuy

    CTGuy Made Guy

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    Comments?

    What do you hope to gain from making these comments on an internet message board?

    You have no doubt already surmised from previous posts that the majority of people here find you both absurd and repugnant.

    Personally, you seem like a relic from a bygone era for which I am not mourning. A classicist southerner who makes it his hobby to point out the flaws in all of society so that he may defend his feeling of superiority in the face of an obviously foriegn cultural landscape from the one he grew up in.

    Frankly, your comments lack any sort of intelligent critique of your dining experience. You lament what others around you are wearing, yet find cite no example of what you would prefer nor why you prefer it. From your comments I think we can suppose you are a dowdy old man with little style and an unpleasant attitude. What value should we hope to gain in your insights?
     
  8. Violinist

    Violinist Senior member

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    What do you hope to gain from making these comments on an internet message board?

    You have no doubt already surmised from previous posts that the majority of people here find you both absurd and repugnant.

    Personally, you seem like a relic from a bygone era for which I am not mourning. A classicist southerner who makes it his hobby to point out the flaws in all of society so that he may defend his feeling of superiority in the face of an obviously foriegn cultural landscape from the one he grew up in.

    Frankly, your comments lack any sort of intelligent critique of your dining experience. You lament what others around you are wearing, yet find cite no example of what you would prefer nor why you prefer it. From your comments I think we can suppose you are a dowdy old man with little style and an unpleasant attitude. What value should we hope to gain in your insights?


    BURN!!!!
     
  9. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    Seattle people have an intense dislike for Californians.
    Yeah, they all moved there from California five years ago, and immediately began cultivating a NoCal-type superior attitude and seeking to pull the gate closed behind them.
     
  10. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    Unless you're drinking a 95 Petrus or something, I find it hard to believe that the motivation comes from any noticeable difference as much as the pretentions to snobbery to which LK alluded.

    I think there's an anaolg in the home audio community: blind tests and science both support the fact that the only differentiator between speaker wires is resistance- so, wires of a given gauge provide the exact same performance regardless of whether or not they're oxygen-free or what have you. Despite this, audio magazines are full of glowing reviews of multi-thousand dollar speaker "cables." Why? If you're looking for an improvement, you'll hear it (or taste it.)

    Moreover, it's hard to see how the practice of bringing one's own wine accoutrements could be polite, unless you're going to a restaurant which has nothing more than a house bottle. If the establishment has any sort of wine stock, much less a sommelier, it seems to me that bringing your own glasses et al is stating rather clearly (and crassly) that your restaurant's not good enough for my refined ass.

    I don't know. I don't have a particularly refined wine palate and don't bring my own glasses to meals. But beyond a certain relatively moderate price point, isn't the pleasure one derives from good wine, good food, nice clothes, stereophilia, single malts, cigars, etc. a purely subjective and personal one? When one takes a serious interest in a particular subject, the "ritual" of it is often part of the pleasure. Using special glasses can be part of the shared experience with one's spouse, partner, etc., either because it's simply part of the "tasting" experience or because those particular glasses have a history or association of import. I don't really see why it is any way impolite to the restaurant, since the restaurant's stemware, however nice, is by definition going to be impersonal.
     
  11. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    BURN!!!!
    I usually consider a "burn" to be a pointed comment that reveals some otherwise not-obvious fallacy or foible in the original speaker's statement or attitude. Petty personal insults require little wit or imagination, and hardly qualify imho.
     
  12. kennethpollock

    kennethpollock Senior member

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    From your comments I think we can suppose you are a dowdy old man with little style and an unpleasant attitude. What value should we hope to gain in your insights?

    An accurate description. How did you know?

    My wineglasses (Rosenthal Divino) are really quite inexpensive, but large (10 1/2" high) and very thin and light. I think that they make fairly inexpensive wines taste much better. Maybe it is because they get more air into the wine. I do not take them to the two places here that have equal or better glasses.

    As to the tie with no coat look: You do often see this being worn by managers in fast food restaurants, managers of other small business such as auto repair shops, low to middle level bureaucrats, etc. I think it is because it is an "authority" symbol to blue-collar fast food workers, auto mechanics and other lower middle class people downward.

    As to the coat with no tie look: I find this often worn by dowdy old men with little style and an unpleasant attitude like myself. I think that many of us old farts deep down feel that we should wear a coat and tie to an expensive restaurant, but we also want to conform and be "modern." We also have to listen to the wife. I think that there is nothing more out-of-style, non-conformist and despised in America today, from a satorical standpoint, than wearing a necktie.

    I think the food in London is now wonderful. I went there regularly from 1971-1991, then a big gap until 2003. What an improvement!

    Atlanta does have, IMO, one of the world's greatest restaurants, Seeger's. This will get me into trouble, but I find most of NY's supposedly finest to be mediocre or worse. Comparing NY's finest, except for a handful of places (such as Jean-Georges or the Modern), to those of France, is like comparing Des Moines dinner theater to Broadway or London theater.

    Pouring from the winebasket is easy. Just pick it up by the handle and pour. On the other hand, there are numerous ways to hold a wine bottle and books could be written debating the correct way.

    PS. I would love to live in a city with more really fine restaurants than here in Atlanta, but I am only a member of the Georgia Bar and moving would be difficult. I am not a food fanatic to that extent.
     
  13. Jill

    Jill Senior member

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    ...I think that there is nothing more out-of-style, non-conformist and despised in America today, from a satorical standpoint, than wearing a necktie...
    Bite your dowdy old tongue!![​IMG]
     
  14. Bouji

    Bouji Senior member

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    An accurate desription. How did you know?

    My wineglasses (Rosenthal Divino) are really quite inexpensive, but large (10 1/2" high) and very thin and light. I think that they make fairly inexpensive wines taste much better. Maybe it is because they get more air into the wine. I do not take them to the two places here that have equal or better glasses.

    As to the tie with no coat look: You do often see this being worn by managers in fast food restaurants, managers of other small business such as auto repair shops, low to middle level bureaucrats, etc. I think it is because it
    is an "authority" symbol to blue-collar fast food workers, auto mechanics and other lower middle class people downward.

    As to the coat with no tie look: I find this often worn by dowdy old men with little style and an unpleasant attitude like myself. I think that many of us old farts deep down feel that we should wear a coat and tie to an expensive restaurant, but we also want to conform and be "modern." We also have to listen to the wife. I think that there is nothing more out-of-style, non-conformist and despised in America today, from a satorical standpoint, than wearing a necktie.

    I think the food in London is now wonderful. I went there regularly from 1971-1991, then a big gap until 2003. What an improvement!

    Atlanta does have, IMO, one of the world's greatest restaurants, Seeger's. This will get me into trouble, but I find most of NY's supposedly finest to be mediocure or worse. Comparing NY's finest, except for a handful of places (such as Jean-Georges or the Modern), to those of France, is like comparing Des Moines dinner theater to Broadway or London theater.

    Pouring from the winebasket is easy. Just pick it up by the handle and pour. On the other hand, there are numerous ways to hold a wine bottle and books could be written debating the correct way.

    PS. I would love to live in a city with more really fine restaurants than here in Atlanta, but I am only a member of the Georgia Bar and moving would be difficult. I am not a food fanatic to that extent.



    You handle yourself with grace; and for this I must respect you.

    With regard to the no tie, with a suit look; in London this is usually worn by younger people. It is actually regarded as quite stylish, and a much more appropriate look to wear to a restaurant in these archaic parts of London.

    You see the thing is in these archaic parts of London (such as Mayfair, Belgravia, and St. James's etc.) The standard tie is really regarded as something you wear to an office, and there's a huge stigma attached to it by locals. The real anal types around hear kick up a fuss when one does not wear a high-wing collar shirt to an office, as this is regarded as the only correct shirt for the office. I mentioned in my last post, it is perfectly acceptable around here to be wearing a cravat, Ascot, or bow-tie to a restaurant. A key thing you also have to remember is that very few people around here are locals, unlike America - the UK does not have a very large urban population; I'd venture to say millions of people venture into these parts of London each day. On average, if you go to somewhere like Petrus or Drones, the likelihood that anyone in the restaurant is local is second to none.

    The archaic types around here would much preffer that us 'younger' locals wore no tie to a restaurant: rather than a standard tie.
     
  15. Violinist

    Violinist Senior member

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    You handle yourself with grace; and for this I must respect you.

    With regard to the no tie, with a suit look; in London this is usually worn by younger people. It is actually regarded as quite stylish, and a much more appropriate look to wear to a restaurant in these archaic parts of London.

    You see the thing is in these archaic parts of London (such as Mayfair, Belgravia, and St. James's etc.) The standard tie is really regarded as something you wear to an office, and there's a huge stigma attached to it by locals. The real anal types around hear kick up a fuss when one does not wear a high-wing collar shirt to an office, as this is regarded as the only correct shirt for the office. I mentioned in my last post, it is perfectly acceptable around here to be wearing a cravat, Ascot, or bow-tie to a restaurant. A key thing you also have to remember is that very few people around here are locals, unlike America - the UK does not have a very large urban population; I'd venture to say millions of people venture into these parts of London each day. On average, if you go to somewhere like Petrus or Drones, the likelihood that anyone in the restaurant is local is second to none.

    The archaic types around here would much preffer that us 'younger' locals wore no tie to a restaurant: rather than a standard tie.


    You know, if the tie looks good, then there's no problem. The dress shirt with the jacket can look great too, but I think a tie can show a lot of taste. In my opinion, if the person is clean and maybe put some thought into how he's dressed and looks good, I don't really care. I think there should probably be a jacket though.
     

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