Drake's and Shibumi Firenze ties not being the specified length

[Jazzthief]

Greetings,

First off, this is not a dig at these companies. This post is about getting to the bottom of my specific issue as I have not heard that anyone else has had such a problem.

I have 10 ‘high-end’ ties: 3 bespoke ones from Shibumi Firenze (SF) and 7 RTW ties from Drake’s. I would consider myself to be a person who takes care of his ties as I gently ease them out of their knots after wearing, roll them for 24 hours and then hang until the next wear. I would also consider 10 ties to be enough of a rotation to give every tie ample time to rest – and I do not wear a tie every day, perhaps 2-3 times a week. I have had most of these ties for about a year.

Now, to the point of my post. The tie lengths to not correspond to the length specified on the order (SF) or on the website (Drake’s).


Shibumi Firenze

Let us start with Shibumi Firenze. all of these are bespoke ties that I have ordered over a 1,5 year long period. I will list them in the order they were commissioned.

1. Ancient madder, untipped, lightweight. Supposed length – 140 cm; actual length – 148 cm.
2. 100% wool, untipped, slightly heavier. Supposed length – 135 cm; actual length – 138 cm.
3. Silk tie, untipped, medium weight. Supposed length – 135 cm; actual length – 145 cm. I immediately on the first wear noticed that the length seemed of so I measured it right away.

I listed the SF ties first because maybe they erred when making the ties for me. Though this seems unlikely in three separate times in a row – and with such a wide margin of error on the first and third tie. The third SF tie is what prompted me to measure all these ties and to try to understand what is going on.


Drake’s

Next up: Drake’s. The website says that every Drake’s tie is 147 cm long and 8 cm wide – this was so for every tie that I purchased. The width is correct, but the length is a whole different matter. I am going to provide some details for each of the seven ties. Every one of them is a ‘regular triangle tip’ silk tie.

1. 40 oz Madder silk tie, self-tipped, medium weight. Actual length 156 cm!
2. Silk tie, untipped, medium weight. Actual length 159 cm! This and the previous tie were the first where I noticed that they seemed to be longer, but I put it down to the characteristics of the material, lining etc.
3. Silk tie, self-tipped, medium weight. Actual length 153 cm.
4. Silk tie, self-tipped, slightly heavier. Actual length 153 cm.
5. Silk tie, self-tipped, slightly heavier. Actual length 153 cm.
6. Grenadine silk tie, untipped, medium weight, might be unlined as well. Actual length 153 cm.
7. Silk tie, self-tipped, slightly heavier. Actual length 159 cm. This tie differs from the others as I have never worn it but gave it to a friend as a gift.

One additional bit of information is that all these ties were purchased through Drake’s Archive sale.

So, there does not seem to a clear correlation between the make of a tie and the length. One could say that self-tipped silk ties are one way as they seem to be 153 cm long, but so is a grenadine untipped tie and one self-tipped silk tie is 159 cm long.


Am I doing something colossally wrong?

What is the deal? How can these lengths vary so much? Perhaps they might have some stretch in them but that should be like a couple cm at the most. Drake’s ties being 6-12 cm off should not be possible. Also, as I have not worn the last listed Drake’s tie myself not once and the length is still way off, it makes me think that maybe it is all not on me.

Did Drake’s sell defective stock in their Archive sale? I do not think so. How else would the lengths be so off? Same with Shibumi Firenze.

Can and how much ties stretch? I assume that slight margin is there. The only tie so far that is even close to the intended length is the 100% wool bespoke tie from SF. All the others are silk.

As I mentioned earlier: with some of the ties I felt right away that they are longer, but I brushed it off as something to do with material and construction that made it necessary to tie a different knot.

I mean, I could be doing something wrong but a tie getting 12 cm longer? No way. As a final titbit: it is not a measuring mistake as when I simply put these ties next to each other the difference is more than obvious.


I am completely discouraged from ordering and even wearing ties in fear of messing something up. It is a costly endeavour, and I am pretty beaten and perplexed at the moment. I mean, would it be with just one company, but with two...

If any of you would require any additional information then just ask! I will try to provide it.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Jazzthief

 

[Jazzthief]

Anyone?

 

[TheShetlandSweater]

Anyone?

Are you measuring along the middle or the edge? With a tape measure or a ruler?

 

[Jazzthief]

Are you measuring along the middle or the edge? With a tape measure or a ruler?

Along the middle - measured with both, a tape measure and a ruler. In addition, when you simply put the ties next to each other, it is plainly visible that they are of different lengths.

 

[Sam Hober]

First, you need to email both companies and ask what their allowed variance is.

Next, assuming that your measurements are correct they need to be before you wear the ties - ties could easily have 2 to 4 cm of stretch especially a grenadine. Normally ties will tend to contract while shipping so hanging them for a day before wearing and measuring is a good idea.

For the Drakes ties if they are old they could have different lengths and widths compared to the website but shouldn't be too far off...

For your custom made ties they should have no more than about 1/4 of an inch (or about .6cm) of a length variance from what you ordered. So either you are measuring incorrectly (I know unlikely) or they should remake the ties and apologize - if you had talked to them right away. Now its a bit late...

Also just to be safe have someone else also measure the ties so we can eliminate measurement errors. Note you have to measure with the ties laying completely flat and straight.

Good luck and let us know what they say after you email them.

 

[Jazzthief]

So, I have answers from both, Drake's and Shibumi Firenze, now. Did not learn much from Drake's, but Benedikt from Shibumi Firenze was super gracious. He provided me with some info regarding tie stretch:

- "fabric (e.g. grenadine or cashmere stretch easily, repp not)
- construction (self-tipped stretch less than hand-rolled, ties without interlining stretching more…)
- tie knot and how you gentle (or not) you untie the knot
- how you store the ties: hanging the ties also lead to some stretch, however that’s also the way how I store my own ties because that’s the best way to keep the ties in shape"

In addition, he proposed that I could send all my Shibumi ties to them (even the old ones) and they will correct the length.. free of charge. He added that if I liked then I could send my Drake's ties as well and they will correct them as well for a small fee. That is pretty insane and has asserted my trust in them.

Thank you @Braddock!

 

[Sam Hober]

Jazzthief,

I am curious did either of the two companies tell you the variance for length that they have?

Hanging ties and how you tie your knots is not going to do much for stretching so don't worry about that also hand rolled edges is also not much of an issue.

Grenadines can stretch but not always.

It is important that they tell you what they mean by correcting the length. The only way to correctly do it is by opening the tie completely and recutting as needed with the correct length and shape for that length. Then putting the tie together again to be like new.

How much are they charging to fix the ties from Drakes? Also Drakes should be the one to fix their ties if they made a mistake as they will tend to do a better job with their own fabrics.

 

[Jazzthief]

Jazzthief,

I am curious did either of the two companies tell you the variance for length that they have?

Hanging ties and how you tie your knots is not going to do much for stretching so don't worry about that also hand rolled edges is also not much of an issue.

Grenadines can stretch but not always.

It is important that they tell you what they mean by correcting the length. The only way to correctly do it is by opening the tie completely and recutting as needed with the correct length and shape for that length. Then putting the tie together again to be like new.

How much are they charging to fix the ties from Drakes? Also Drakes should be the one to fix their ties if they made a mistake as they will tend to do a better job with their own fabrics.

They did not provide speficic numbers about the stretch. Drake's just said that they might have had longer ties in their Archive, which is weird because they were still listed as 147 cm long.

Nevertheless, I had a dumb theory as to why these ties stretched so much, but your input does not support this theory. Because they were longer anyway I had to tie these stupid knots where I started as a half-windsor and then did the final wrapping twice which really put strain on the part where the knot formed. I thought that perhaps this contributed to the stretch.

I got the impression that they will open the tie and then correct the length and shape. They charge 5€ per tie for Drake's ties. I cannot be bothered to have them shipped back to UK as they are not a part of the EU anymore and it would be too much of a hassle for me. They did not seem to be bothered by the fact that the ties were not the correct length, so I would not spend my energy with them on the matter anymore.

 

[Sam Hober]

"They charge 5€ per tie for Drake's ties"

That is a very low price sounds like a good idea to send all the ties to Shibumi, and they sound like nice people.

I wasn't asking about stretching when I mentioned a length variance - I meant how much of a difference do they allow for the length compared to the stated length. Maybe Drakes doesn't have a policy ? But you mentioned that Shibumi has bespoke ties so they should have a clear policy...

Good luck with the remaking let us know how it turns out.

 

[Jazzthief]

"They charge 5€ per tie for Drake's ties"

That is a very low price sounds like a good idea to send all the ties to Shibumi, and they sound like nice people.

I wasn't asking about stretching when I mentioned a length variance - I meant how much of a difference do they allow for the length compared to the stated length. Maybe Drakes doesn't have a policy ? But you mentioned taht Shibumi has bespoke ties so they should have a clear policy...

Dood luck with the remaking let us know how it turns out.

I think the first unlined light madder tie from Shibumi just stretched (with the help of my stupid knots). With the second one they just messed up the length. Drake's did not specify their allowance and their answer was laconic. They probably just sent me too long ties because 12 cm is a stretch for a stretch (yes, a bad pun very intended).

 

[Sam Hober]

Very unlikely madder tie stretched that much...

But Shibumi will fix the ties so all should be fine.