Double Breasted Style.

[Despos]

View attachment 1568241

This is a real gentleman. One of nicest, most genuine person I've me in this trade. This is a very old picture.

 

[Despos]

This is fascinating to me! And it has me wondering, though I'm not sure if you'd be able to quantify it, what it is that your eye is looking for. In other words, why would one person be better with, say, a jacket that fully covered the seat but another better with something different. Or are there just too many variables invovled?

It's my gift , I can't explain it.
You want to balance girth and height with the length.
Have stocky built clients who want short jackets and it looks terrible. The short length makes the hips look wider and feminine.
Balance the length with the waist position, how the trouser fits and drapes, relation of torso and leg. Idea is to create proportions that make sense and doesn't create an imbalance of line. There is a desirable point where the jacket length is invisible because it just looks right and blends the jacket and the trouser. It doesn't draw attention by being too short or long or disruptive to the overall look. No formula can work with so many variables to consider.
Choose a jacket length a few thousand times and you develop a sense when it's right and you know when it's not.

 

[Despos]

I agree with @ChasingStyle that it's too strong to conclude something like, they are carefree thus their work is sloppy. I am not yet at the 11th level of relationship with either of the 2 Neapolitan (traveling) tailors I've worked with, but I found both to be diligent and passionate about their craft. For example, with 1 of them, he mentioned during the first fitting that the balance was off and asked me whether I wanted a second fitting or the jacket straight away.

Having said that, as a non-Neapolitan outsider, I think there is some truth to "their work is sloppy," but it depends on both the tailor and the client. If you watch O'Mast, there is a sense that Neapolitan tailors don't like clients who they perceive as ignorant. So for these clients, their attitude may be, "you can't tell what's good or bad, so I don't have to do my best."

think it can be said there is sloppy sewing in any country or any city in any country. Every shop has a skill set and some are more refined than others.
My interpretation of the O'Mast comment is with a customer who has some insight to what a tailor is and what his capabilities can accomplish is more appreciative of the results because he has some understanding. Lots of men get great fitting suits but don't grasp the how or the why it fits.
That's why I emphasize you at least know what your fitting issues are so you have some method of analysis to know if the tailor is competent.

 

[acapaca]

It's my gift , I can't explain it.
You want to balance girth and height with the length.
Have stocky built clients who want short jackets and it looks terrible. The short length makes the hips look wider and feminine.
Balance the length with the waist position, how the trouser fits and drapes, relation of torso and leg. Idea is to create proportions that make sense and doesn't create an imbalance of line. There is a desirable point where the jacket length is invisible because it just looks right and blends the jacket and the trouser. It doesn't draw attention by being too short or long or disruptive to the overall look. No formula can work with so many variables to consider.
Choose a jacket length a few thousand times and you develop a sense when it's right and you know when it's not.

This is awesome -- thank you so much for the insights. I especially love the notion of the jacket length being invisible as it blends with the trouser. Do you find any meaningful difference at all when we're talking about sportcoats and odd trousers? I'm guessing that the 'ideal' could vary a bit from trouser to trouser, actually, given the variables you mention (about how the trousers fit).

 

[Nbarbar]

This fabric is amazing.

 

[Despos]

This is awesome -- thank you so much for the insights. I especially love the notion of the jacket length being invisible as it blends with the trouser. Do you find any meaningful difference at all when we're talking about sportcoats and odd trousers? I'm guessing that the 'ideal' could vary a bit from trouser to trouser, actually, given the variables you mention (about how the trousers fit).

Best suits or jacket/trouser fits are cohesive and balanced Not one element draws more attention than another. Bad proportions draw attention in a negative way, cause a distraction. If the length is right you don’t notice it and that’s good.

 

[Mr. Six]

The DB jackets he commissions have always been spot on. It's the single breasted jackets that are off in my eye.

I'll have to look for some of this other DBs. We're in agreement about the SBs. I hope that one day he decides to commission a SB jacket or suit from @Despos!

 

[Despos]

Maybe its just a bad sample set that have shaped my opinion. I love my Neapolitan jackets but they still have problems after making multiple orders. I've also received numerous emails from posters complaining about the tailors they've used from the area. I have no desire to test out multiple tailors from naples so I'll be sticking with my perfect imperfections. My jackets from my tailor make me happy and I enjoy seeing him when he comes state side.



Naples was a blast but i travel light and didn't have room for extra baggage.

18 days worth of clothing in two bags.

View attachment 1568126

@lordsuperb

How many pairs of shoes do you need for 18 days of travel?

 

[Despos]

I'll have to look for some of this other DBs. We're in agreement about the SBs. I hope that one day he decides to commission a SB jacket or suit from @Despos!

@Mr. Six @lordsuperb

What do you guys see in the SB’s you would change?
Have never cut a jacket for anyone with his shoulders and shoulder blades. I’m more adept at high, square shoulders than extreme sloping shoulders.
Would be a challenge

 

[Encathol Epistemia]

@Mr. Six @lordsuperb

What do you guys see in the SB’s you would change?
Have never cut a jacket for anyone with his shoulders and shoulder blades. I’m more adept at high, square shoulders than extreme sloping shoulders.
Would be a challenge

I'm pretty well served by my tailors, but reading this almost makes me wonder if there's a system for referrals to a specialist, as though some kind of sartorial analogue to an HMO. I apparently have very square shoulders. At my first slip on fitting with Joseph Genuardi, we found that the shoulders weren't cut square enough, which prompted him to muse, "when I was drafting the pattern, I thought, "wow, these are really square,"" and yet, alas not. It's one of the principle excu... *achem* reasons that I've had for seeking bespoke clothing; decades of discontent around the shoulders can be motivating.

 

[lordsuperb]

@Mr. Six @lordsuperb

What do you guys see in the SB’s you would change?
Have never cut a jacket for anyone with his shoulders and shoulder blades. I’m more adept at high, square shoulders than extreme sloping shoulders.
Would be a challenge

The Good.........

The side profile shows the small of the back falling straight and not accentuating Simon's seat. The fuller trousers are congruent with the overall shape of the jacket.

The amount of fullness in the chest, subtle waist suppression, and slight hip flair make the two jackets work.

The Bad and The Ugly-

Anderson Sheppard

Ciardi

Chittleborough & Morgan

Cifonelli

Dalcuore

Kathryn Sargent

Richard Anderson is average at best and looks like RTW.

 

[lordsuperb]

@lordsuperb

How many pairs of shoes do you need for 18 days of travel?

3 pairs - Running/walking shoes, foldable dress loafers (Castaner), and foldable converse.

 

[Despos]

The Good.........

View attachment 1568890

The side profile shows the small of the back falling straight and not accentuating Simon's seat. The fuller trousers are congruent with the overall shape of the jacket.
View attachment 1568891

View attachment 1568892

The amount of fullness in the chest, subtle waist suppression, and slight hip flair make the two jackets work.
View attachment 1568902

View attachment 1568904
View attachment 1568905

The Bad and The Ugly-

Anderson Sheppard
View attachment 1568909
Ciardi
View attachment 1568910

Chittleborough & Morgan
View attachment 1568911
View attachment 1568912

Cifonelli
View attachment 1568913

Dalcuore
View attachment 1568914
View attachment 1568921

Kathryn Sargent
View attachment 1568915

Richard Anderson is average at best and looks like RTW.
View attachment 1568916

@lordsuperb
Superb analysis lord! Who made the first navy DB?
These are all respected tailors so you can see it's difficult to fit and style for his physique.

 

[Despos]

I'm pretty well served by my tailors, but reading this almost makes me wonder if there's a system for referrals to a specialist, as though some kind of sartorial analogue to an HMO. I apparently have very square shoulders. At my first slip on fitting with Joseph Genuardi, we found that the shoulders weren't cut square enough, which prompted him to muse, "when I was drafting the pattern, I thought, "wow, these are really square,"" and yet, alas not. It's one of the principle excu... *achem* reasons that I've had for seeking bespoke clothing; decades of discontent around the shoulders can be motivating.

@Encathol Epistemia
adeptness is due to having more clients with high/square shoulders than sloping.
Common to have a second issue with high shoulders. Prominent bones or bumps along the shoulder line. Makes it more complex to fit.

 

[TheShetlandSweater]

The Good.........

View attachment 1568890

The side profile shows the small of the back falling straight and not accentuating Simon's seat. The fuller trousers are congruent with the overall shape of the jacket.
View attachment 1568891

View attachment 1568892

The amount of fullness in the chest, subtle waist suppression, and slight hip flair make the two jackets work.
View attachment 1568902

View attachment 1568904
View attachment 1568905

The Bad and The Ugly-

Anderson Sheppard
View attachment 1568909
Ciardi
View attachment 1568910

Chittleborough & Morgan
View attachment 1568911
View attachment 1568912

Cifonelli
View attachment 1568913

Dalcuore
View attachment 1568914
View attachment 1568921

Kathryn Sargent
View attachment 1568915

Richard Anderson is average at best and looks like RTW.
View attachment 1568916

I agree with you on most of these, but several points.

1) Simon's pictures are taken from way too low down and this distorts his shoulders horribly and makes them look much smaller. I don't think most people realize how much a poorly placed camera can distort things. Many of his jackets look better in video. Some of his jackets like the Dalcuore and Ciardi that don't have shoulders that are built up much just look awful in these pictures. He has a later Dalcuore that looks much more flattering.

2) I think Simon's physique has gotten bulkier over time so some of his older jackets don't fit as well.
3) I actually like the Kathryn Sargent and C&M. In general, I think he looks better with a structured shoulder. I also believe those are both older suits, hence the fit issues.