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Does Tom Ford do classic, or just trendy?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by weatherguy, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Quarks

    Quarks Senior member

    Messages:
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    Apr 17, 2011
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    

    I have seen MTM/ Bespoke gone wrong. Committing a few thousand dollars to get it all wrong and not wear able to wear it, is more than a kick in the nuts. (If someone offers me a MTM/ bespoke for under a thousand, I would run as far away as my legs can possibly carry me.)
    What you said seemed so easy but the process of making a suit is far more complicated than that. To me, getting a suit made is like getting a hair cut at a new salon or barber. You never know what you are gonna end up with. Making suits is a journey, it gets better in time. It has trials & errors. I have no intention to spend enormous amount of time (& money) to find my own algorithm of perfecting a suit, and after painstakingly having 10 tailored suits later, to have the suit I finally want. What do I do with the previous 10? Put it in a museum?

    I have suits from E. Zegna and thats the second best I have come across, having tried many across the board, Brioni, Kiton, Pal Zileri, Canali, etc, you name it. Not one of them were cut to the way I want it to be. Most of them, the waist of the jackets are too loose, button stance too high, shoulders too narrow, too wide, lapels too thin or too highly positioned, pants fitting were poor despite tailoring them, they all just don't seem quite right. I just don't feel right in them. You know it when you tried that many suits over the years. I have spent thousands on suits I have been unhappy with.

    Imagine when I first tried Tom Ford, smirking about the hype. Unexpectedly it took me by surprise how well everything came together. Even the pants fitted they way I always wanted it be but just could not conveyed it to anyone. It is almost Tom Ford knew how I wanted it to be. It is ridiculous. Stupendously ridiculous. But this is exactly how a pair of pants should fit. That's my insanity towards great fitting pants. I was sold to TF when the pants fitted, and how it came together so well with the suit jacket. Pants has always always been my biggest hurdles. I am meticulous in spotting the slightest discrepancy when it comes to pants and I can be difficult when dealing with tailors - they all hate me.

    OTR Tom Ford fitted me well with slight adjustments if needed. Why should I devote a trial of time and money to get something close to it? I don't want to come across as blowing the horn for TF, not like it needs any with the hype from the celebrities.
    I can see why others enjoy MTM/ Bespoke. To others, it is more than making a perfect suit. It is the journey it takes, the service, the relationship that evolved with the tailor, or whatever that may be. When they wear their MTM/Bespoke suit, it takes back to the painstaking journey of creating one, and they wear the suit, they wear it with tremendous pride. My keen eye for what I want in a suit does not coincide well with any tailor (I have been) at this point. I have found my grail. Till my taste evolves, I stick by them for now.

    But I won't dismiss MTM/ bespoke just yet.
     
  2. size 38R

    size 38R Senior member

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    Granted, my TF fit like a glove, but others have too. as a straight up 38R, it's easy to see the difference in cuts. so without making this a price war with snobs disagreeing. the o.p was asking about a OTR Tom Ford. and i said he could get tailored for cheaper. Agree?
    and yes my next suit purchase will be MTM. by an experienced suitmaker. at around $1000. with my input on what i want. BTW my maker is OLD and has 30+ years of doing it behind them.
    so i am confident of the fit and style. as i like traditional. f#*k it. i'll just go back to my sewing machine and make myself a waistcoat.[​IMG]
     
  3. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member

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    I definitely do not agree that you're likely to get something similar to a TF suit from a $1k MTM job.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. size 38R

    size 38R Senior member

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    i have read your articles and have great respect.
    but, did you read what i said carefully?

    "the o.p was asking about a OTR Tom Ford. and i said he could get tailored for cheaper. Agree? "

    or do you mean "a really expensive zegna?" [​IMG]
    my suit will be comparable to anything sub 3k. with fabric from aforementioned company(Dormeuil). and I, also suspect the o.p. would be happy with such.
    hence, i suggest looking into fabrics and having an item made to his specifications. so, subject to what he wants, and cost of fabric+ construction. it is possible to have exactly what he wants (a S/C) at that price.(3k)
    - and even sub 1k. if he can get it made for $600-$700. which many tailors can do. all he needs to do is look around, and i will pm him with suggestions to help.
    work with your tailor, always be nice, and pay upfront. because if you pay more than 3k for a MTM................you pay too much.
     
  5. jeff13007

    jeff13007 Senior member

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    30+ years of making a kia doesn't mean when a carmaker tries to make a ferrari he's gonna be successful. Then again its your own money and i do wish you the best of luck with you commission.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  6. Chrenetique

    Chrenetique Senior member

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    Apr 28, 2009
    Location:
    Apocalypse
    Kilgour, among other "military style" Savile Row tailors, can make you a bespoke cut that's akin to Tom Ford's offerings (or the other way round: Tom Ford was inspired by Kilgour and the likes). However, it will cost much more than $1k. Probably as much as a Tom Ford suit ($4k or so).

    You will not have Brioni or Tom Ford quality (cut, fabrics, construction, details) for $1k.
     
  7. jeff13007

    jeff13007 Senior member

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    If we are talking about Kilgour's Bespoke and not their Shanghai MTM which i think has been discontinued, i think you are probably looking at closer to 3k UK pounds. Huntsman is around 5-6k now i think but then again they do have the reputation of being the most expensive on the row
     
  8. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member

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    Maybe I'm misunderstanding...but you're saying he could get something tailored for him (not sure whether you mean MTM or bespoke) for much cheaper than TF? Maybe cheaper than TF, but not that much cheaper. And there's also the significant risk that it will come out looking not as the OP intended. TF is a pretty distinctive style. No houses have that as their house style really. So you'll inevitably be pushing any tailor out of their comfort zone.

    For CMT at $6-700, it's possible you could get lucky and get something you like, especially if you have a really strong idea of what you want, and it's close to what the tailor is used to making, and he's willing to listen to you. But it's certainly not the case that you're guaranteed a good fit just because it's MTM.

    This has been discussed in numerous threads, but just because it's MTM or bespoke does not mean that you can do whatever you want. You are significantly constrained by the house style of your tailor, and also the million little stylistic decisions he'll have to make without consulting you.
     
  9. size 38R

    size 38R Senior member

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    you are right, But 30+ years of making men's suits means they can make a suit.
    but the quote above,
    -that's like saying " 30 years of making civics, you can't make an NSX" or "30 years of Datsun's can't make a GTR".............. both of these cars eat Ferrari's. [​IMG]

    if you don't know what you want, you won't get what you want.
    no amount of money paid will satisfy you.
    i have an idea of what i want, my tailor has their price.
    -and the o.p can get what he wants.if he knows what he wants. or, he can pay too much for a brand name.
     
  10. size 38R

    size 38R Senior member

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    you are very right, and with good reason. i agree with you 100% . looks like we have an understanding. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  11. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member

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    Not true. It's possible to not really know what you want, go somewhere looking for a suit, and find one you like. I don't know why that should be impossible. Of course it's easier to find something you like if you already know what it looks like, but it's not necessary.

    Like I said, I hope he delivers what you want. But you pick a random tailor charging $700 CMT on a suit, you're probably not going to get what you want if you're very picky at all.

    Again, if the OP really likes the TF, the safest and probably most cost-effective option is to just buy TF, on sale if you can get it. But it's a distinctive look that other tailors are not going to be able to recreate easily. Likely result would be spending $2-3k to get a jacket that's fine, but not like the TF one. Worst case scenario, the attempt goes horribly wrong and results in something unwearable.

    I have no real particular passion for TF. I don't own any of his clothing. But jeffreyd did a writeup on a TF suit that was interesting:

    http://tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/2010/10/tom-ford.html
     
  12. biged781

    biged781 Senior member

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    Jan 20, 2013
    I use Romeo in La Jolla CA. A superb tailor. Jackets for 3k, suit for 3.5. I realize that price isn't true across the board though, I am really only speaking of circumstances wherein the price of an OTR piece is relatively the same as a bespoke piece would be.

    If you're not getting exactly what you want from your tailor then either A) your expectations were unreasonable, B) your tailor is not as talented as you had hoped, or C) there was a communication problem on one side or both.

    Of course, if you can find something OTR that fits you damn near perfectly (and then perfectly with minor alterations), go for it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  13. jeff13007

    jeff13007 Senior member

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    There you go. Now I'm sure we can both agree that if we are able to find the same for under $1000 like 38R is suggesting we wouldn't bother with the 3k+ bespoke or the high end OTR stuff. My issue with NSM wasn't that their work was subpar or their fit was off its just the whole look doesn't do it for me. If i had been able to try on a RTW garment and seen how the whole thing looked together i probably would not have gone through with it. This is partially my fault as i saw how they looked on some posters here but that particular look just didn't do it for me.
     
  14. size 38R

    size 38R Senior member

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    yeah, i like traditional cuts. and my tailor is old. so, good match? i think so. [​IMG]
    i like a fit on the shoulders, and a nice drape . with not too slim notched lapels. and a 3 button s/b.
    flannel. pinstripe or p.o.w. dual vented. fully lined. with a total of 5 pockets. fitted at the waist.
    for the money? yes.
    i can supply fabric (150's) and ivory buttons. [​IMG](deer antler).
    and i am certain the suit will meet requirements.
    no problems getting a tailor to make my next suit.i have a choice of 2,of course this will not be overnight. but i can wait.[​IMG]

    everybody is different, get what you want. for the price you are prepared to pay. any tailor worth their salt will be able to do it.
    and only a tailor could tell the quality level, remember. we dress for self confidence,not to have a contest with others. to 95% of people you meet, if you are seen as "impeccably dressed". how much it cost means little. you look Damn good!!!!! enjoy.
     
  15. wardlem

    wardlem Member

    Messages:
    9
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    Mar 13, 2013
    Location:
    London
    i just picked up a couple of TF suits this week - both are "plain" blue and black - the only slightly "non-plain" thing about them is the slightly larger peak lapels I would say.
     
  16. biged781

    biged781 Senior member

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    Oh yeah, of course. Again, I only said that I don't understand paying X dollars for an OTR suit when you can have something made for the same price. That assumes X is within a certain range.
     
  17. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    Jan 18, 2010
    

    Just expanding on this. If you are going for Dormeuil's 150's I assume this is their 15.8. The cloth alone is roughly 600. Perhaps another $100 for the real silk lining. 15.8 is light weight cloth and most tailors will want to use some fusing. If you really specify no fusing what so ever (except perhaps at the lapel tips) than that will require a skilled tailor to do and $700 for this seems very very low.

    In any regards all in cost for you seems closer to $1500, maybe more. At this price a quality suit is doable using hongkong/china labour but you really have to know who to choose. Far more chances that the suit will be OK but nowhere near great.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  18. Xenon

    Xenon Senior member

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    This sounds very reasonable
     
  19. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member

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    I've used Romeo for alterations before. Definitely knows what he's doing. I saw some of his bespoke work in the shop when I was there, but didn't really take too close a look. Prices sound reasonable for what I imagine him to be capable of though.
     
  20. othertravel

    othertravel Senior member

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    Didn't want to start a new thread about this, but I found a TF suit that has 2% elastine. Looks like they're getting into travel fabrics.
     

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