Does Styleforum create new trends or does it simply follow them very closely?

[Crazy]

I think SuFu contributed a lot to the popularity of APC (and raw denim in general) for americans, and it filtered down the chain through bloggers, eventually to regular people.

SF probably holds a similar but lesser influence with its hype over BoO, EG, and more of a classic american (americana? preppy?) style.

 

[wmmk]

Originally Posted by impolyt_one

And FWIW, every fit I've posted here, whether it's bought or clothing of my own creation, has brought the style to styleforum.

It's impressive that you make your own clothes, but wearing a white buttondown with grey shorts isn't exactly mind-blowing. Sure, it looks nice and I'd wear it, but give me a ******* break.

 

[TheDroog]

Originally Posted by LA Guy

They are. How many people can legitimately claim to have worn Band of Outsiders slim shirts or raw denim jeans in the 90s (outside of Japan, they were not even available before 1989, and then only at APC outlets, via *phone* order, and then throughout most of the 90s, only at select places that sold Evisu and Helmut Lang). Maybe Getsmart. Maybe. Workwear is the only trend that I can say we "anticipated", insofar as we caught the (current) wave from the onset. I wrote about Engineered Garments FW03 that winter, which was the first non-Japan only season, well before Redwings became part of the hipster uniform.
Exactly. Boat shoes and skinny jeans are not new in and of themselves, but when a large enough number of the general population adopts them and they eventually explode in popularity, you have a fashion trend. In my OP, I'm not trying to argue that SF creates the future of fashion. What I'm trying to do is understand its influence in the overall system. In Malcolm Gladwell's Tipping Point, there was a short anecdote about the sudden popularity of Hush Puppies, which had existed for years. A group of young kids in NYC began to wear them, and they steadily grew in popularity. At some point Hush Puppies sales skyrocketed as the general public took a liking to them. My question is where do places like SF and SuperFuture fit into this storyline? Are we the cool kids in NYC who start the fads? Or are we the early adopters who see what the cool kids are doing? Are there examples of the former? (From the first few pages of the thread, it seems like most people here think SF only follows, which may be true. I haven't been here long enough to judge.)

 

[Get Smart]

Originally Posted by TheDroog

Or are we the early adopters who see what the cool kids are doing? Are there examples of the former?

this is more accurate.

for example, and I only use these examples because I have first hand involvement in the scenes, the G9 Harrington jacket in the last year has really taken off in popularity among "normals". Yes, it was the jacket that Elvis wore, Sinatra wore, Miles wore, McQueen wore, an ivy league staple, but the harrington jacket for the past 40 years has been mostly associated with UK subcultures like mod and skinhead. It's why harringtons of some variety have been sold at skinhead shops since before there was an internet. It was as recently as maybe 3 years ago that if you saw someone wearing a harrington 90% chance he was a skin/mod. Kind of like how Doc Martens became mainstream in early 90s, before that only punks/skins wore them. Not to say kids today are jocking Joe Hawkins when they want a harrington, but a new mythology surrounding McQueen and his ilk has sprung up with this "newfound" discovery of the G9

raw selvedge jeans were the domain of mostly rockabilly cats before becoming mainstream in about 2004/5. Some purist mod/skinheads also wore selvedge jeans before that as well, but rockabilly guys/gals were always on the lookout for selvedge denim, mostly LVC in the 90s, and I remember seeing guys wearing Evisu as well.

I'm sure there are other subcultures who had their uniform co-opted into the mainstream that I'm not as aware of, but over the years I've seen a **** ton of skinhead/mod gear get on the radar of normal guys. In the end, good gear doesnt belong to any tribe, but it's good to be aware of the associations, for education sake if no other reason.

 

[impolyt_one]

Originally Posted by wmmk

It's impressive that you make your own clothes, but wearing a white buttondown with grey shorts isn't exactly mind-blowing. Sure, it looks nice and I'd wear it, but give me a ******* break.
Does everything have to be mind-blowing to be 'stylish'? Appreciate the finer points, there is more than what a single digital photo can bring you. The truth is, I created all of my ToJ clothes for the very kind of people who frequent styleforum, moreso here than even superfuture which I prefer as a style source; that is guys on the skinnier side, looking for insanely high quality fabric and construction, combined with a slimmer fit, all at very fair (read: realistic middle-class American) prices. (or rather bargain prices) I have no intentions to be a startup avant gardist, that is a different game. I just want people who appreciate 'nice clothes' to be able to have those nice clothes, it is a simple concept. We're living in times where it's tough to drop $3K in a day on clothes, so I want people to be able to walk away with 5-8 'perfect' pieces of basic, versatile clothing for under $1000, which is think is right up the alley of many people on this forum. My varsity jacket which I posted yesterday costs around $250, and is made from a cashmere coating wool body and lambskin sleeves and a pure silk lining, and has a very stylish, unique cut you won't find elsewhere. Beyond that, my serious answer to this thread is that there are a number of people on this forum whose style I respect (you are most definitely not one of them wmmk, sorry to say) and to that, I also believe that most of them are not directly influenced by styleforum. Styleforum itself is another database of information, which serves more than it's purpose, but the people who I feel really bring the style (Get Smart, Phat Guido, Brian, et al) have probably always done so in their own way and have had their 'look' locked in, and probably haven't been shaped by styleforum as much they shape it.

 

[Dewey]

Hmm.

Ben Silver has been selling the harrington jacket for how long? I don't think the fact that Lands' End sells a harrington today justifies the comparison to grunge making Doc Martens more popular in the 90s. Those Ben Silver guys have never been very mod or punk. The harrington is zip-front lightweight jacket with buttons at the collar instead of points. It's not that distinct. Variations and imitations have been broadly popular for a long time. Maybe the friends of some of you guys are wearing them more frequently, but this does not mean that the jacket is truly enjoying some kind of widespread vogue (relative to any other period in its enduring popularity).

Also, raw denim: Blue jeans are way too popular to have a history that is distinct from the broadest explanations of trends in how American clothe themselves. For example, Levis shrink-to-fit have been around forever. I've worn these since the 80s. A history of raw denim's popularity in the US would have to explain raw denim in the context of the trends in the Levi's & other mass-market jeans & their styles and colors in general.

I am doubtful that many converts to Gap raw denim or APC are imitating rockabilly style or whatever; more likely they are looking for higher-end jeans because (a) they are relying on jeans more for work and "dressing up" (jeans + blazer is still gaining acceptance) and (b) they will pay more for their "good" clothes. The fact that we had a financial bubble, creating pretty sick sums of disposable income for some people, with the rise of the internet, which makes international shopping so much easier, these things have helped Americans looking for "good" jeans to find pricier alternatives to the 501 STF. And, since you can now "dress up" in jeans most anywhere, it makes sense that very dark blue jeans have become more popular at the same time that so many men and women consider black the best color for professional work clothing.

Some SFers (I have no one in mind; I am generalizing here) have no eye for clothes until they join and read the boards for a year. Then they think all these trends are happening. Really it's their perception that has changed. They begin to see Red Wings everywhere because they just learned wtf is Red Wings. Ditto Desert Boots, boat shoes, and all these other classic styles of shoes, pants, shirts, jackets. SF is a great tool for gathering information about what people wear and how they make decisions to wear what they wear. But I doubt it could be proved conclusively that SF creates or follows trends because most of these trends are not trends at all, but figments of someone's neophyte perception.

 

[Get Smart]

Originally Posted by Dewey

I am doubtful that many converts to Gap raw denim or APC are imitating rockabilly style or whatever;

of course not, point is that what was once the norm, became part of a small subculture aesthetic and developed a new "norm", then it went full circle back to being the mainstream norm. I remember when the only place to get raw selvedge denim was at a big rockabilly show with vendors from around the globe bringing their wares. Doesnt mean selvedge jeans are a rockabilly thing, but those were the guys still interested in it when the typical SFer here was wearing prewashed bootcuts.

and the harrington is definitely seeing a trendy revival, look at how many different colors Baracuta now makes, it's countless. And you see mags like GQ writing up harringtons as the "must have spring jacket". Try to find one photo spread of a G9 in the last 20 years of GQ, harder than a needle in a haystack. And with all trends, that will pass, and the type pf guys who've been wearing the harrington for the last 40+ years will still be the ones to wear it regularly.

Look, there's probably a hardcore "preppy" from the 80s that thinks this new Americana Trend is ridiculous cuz he's been wearing that **** for the last 20 years. There's always someone ahead of the curve that just "lives his style" and doesnt post on message boards. As far as the curve goes, SF is fairly on top of being aware of it, but it definitely isnt creating anything

 

[constant struggle]

Really its like this:
Sufu is ahead of the curve by 3 years
SF is ahead of the curve by 2 years
UO is ahead of the curve by 1 year
walmart will have it soon after

 

[DLester]

Originally Posted by Get Smart

Look, there's probably a hardcore "preppy" from the 80s that thinks this new Americana Trend is ridiculous cuz he's been wearing that **** for the last 20 years.

This is true, but I suspect that the hardcore preppy would hate the slimmer fits you now see. Down south, preppy has been big forever, but the clothes are much larger than on SF. It is the change in fit that freshens the look.

Menswear evolves so slowly that a change in fit is a massive change that most of the population will reject. This is why you won't see a lot of people in Birmingham sizing down from XL to Medium on darted oxford shirts.

 

[lechon&rice]

Originally Posted by impolyt_one

Does everything have to be mind-blowing to be 'stylish'? Appreciate the finer points, there is more than what a single digital photo can bring you. The truth is, I created all of my ToJ clothes for the very kind of people who frequent styleforum, moreso here than even superfuture which I prefer as a style source; that is guys on the skinnier side, looking for insanely high quality fabric and construction, combined with a slimmer fit, all at very fair (read: realistic middle-class American) prices. (or rather bargain prices) I have no intentions to be a startup avant gardist, that is a different game. I just want people who appreciate 'nice clothes' to be able to have those nice clothes, it is a simple concept. We're living in times where it's tough to drop $3K in a day on clothes, so I want people to be able to walk away with 5-8 'perfect' pieces of basic, versatile clothing for under $1000, which is think is right up the alley of many people on this forum. My varsity jacket which I posted yesterday costs around $250, and is made from a cashmere coating wool body and lambskin sleeves and a pure silk lining, and has a very stylish, unique cut you won't find elsewhere. Beyond that, my serious answer to this thread is that there are a number of people on this forum whose style I respect (you are most definitely not one of them wmmk, sorry to say) and to that, I also believe that most of them are not directly influenced by styleforum. Styleforum itself is another database of information, which serves more than it's purpose, but the people who I feel really bring the style (Get Smart, Phat Guido, Brian, et al) have probably always done so in their own way and have had their 'look' locked in, and probably haven't been shaped by styleforum as much they shape it.
where do you get your fabrics? do you buy them wholesale or retail prices? Here in Chicago, retail prices for cashmere coating starts at $ 99 and up, for leathers $ 120 and up for a skin which is only enough for one sleeve. And the ribbing, did you get that custom made because the sleeve cuff ribbing matches the waistband ribbing?

 

[sho'nuff]

i, for one, single-handedly brought paisley back into fashion in 2007 and glen-plaid in 2009.

 

[Brian SD]

We don't create trends, but we're somewhere between cutting edge and mainstream, so things will get picked up here before they hit widespread recognition. As LA Guy put, Styleforum was way ahead of the curve on workwear, but it's not as if we can take responsibility for it becoming more mainstream. It's more a signal that if something becomes popular on Styleforum, it's likely to see mainstream success in the long-term.

Shoreman hit the nail on the head.

Forums in general are for hobbyists and enthusiasts, which by their nature, are followers. I can't think of any forums that I would consider responsible (even partly) for any trends that ever saw light.

This discussion has come up a few times in the past, on several fora. Styleforum members aren't trendsetters, they're just people who expect really nice and expensive **** for a really low price.

It's impressive that you make your own clothes, but wearing a white buttondown with grey shorts isn't exactly mind-blowing. Sure, it looks nice and I'd wear it, but give me a ******* break.

Since when is having style about being "mind-blowing?"

 

[SoCal2NYC]

Originally Posted by TheDroog

There's a chicken or the egg conundrum in the question though.

Obviously most of us buy our clothes rather than make them, so we are beholden to what clothing designers put out there. In that sense we can only follow. But designers often say their collections are influenced by what they see on the street. So in that respect, they could be influenced by fashionable young men (even from here).

Suppose Doc Martens are featured as the "It" shoe of the fall. Dior Homme parades all its models in them and GQ tells everyone to go buy them. You could argue that its pseudo-popularity here on SF contributed to its "It" status.

That a trend forecasting company tells them is cool and cutting edge.

 

[MiniW]

Originally Posted by Brian SD

they're just people who expect really nice and expensive **** for a really low price.

this sense of entitlement describes me perfectly

 

[pierreyann]

Originally Posted by TheDroog

In Malcolm Gladwell's Tipping Point, there was a short anecdote about the sudden popularity of Hush Puppies, which had existed for years. A group of young kids in NYC began to wear them, and they steadily grew in popularity. At some point Hush Puppies sales skyrocketed as the general public took a liking to them. My question is where do places like SF and SuperFuture fit into this storyline? Are we the cool kids in NYC who start the fads? Or are we the early adopters who see what the cool kids are doing? Are there examples of the former?
with that

We don't create trends, but we're somewhere between cutting edge and mainstream, so things will get picked up here before they hit widespread recognition. As LA Guy put, Styleforum was way ahead of the curve on workwear, but it's not as if we can take responsibility for it becoming more mainstream. It's more a signal that if something becomes popular on Styleforum, it's likely to see mainstream success in the long-term.

made me think ... the innovation litterature talks about different types of adopters which we'll simply define here as "innovators", "early adopters" and "everybody else". in technology-related products, na dargumentably in other product categories, it seems there's a chasm between the innovators and the rest of the population (that chasm was popularized by the best-selling book breaking the chasm). it also seems that there's a communication gap between innovators and the rest of the population. innovators will be influenced by novelty (e.g. a product is new, so i want it) while early adopters will be looking at a good buy, but still want to be ahead of the trend. everybody else will follow after wards. the two comments i quoted made me think that sufu and sf might serve as a place where innovators and early adopters can meet and exchange information about products, something that is not that much seen: in fact, usually, early adopters find innovators too innovative, which affect their credibility. for example, let's say that your an innovator in ku-fu movies. you'll go and see every new ku-fu movies and tell your friends are awesome those movies are. all your friends will know ur totally biaised hence nobody will listen to your advices ;P but since sufu and sf are realtively thighly knitted community + there's a lot -a lot- of tricks that reduce uncertainty of buying new and innovative products (comments + fit pics + pics + evolution threads, supermarket, etc...) well, i argued, like briansd put up, that sufu and sf serves as styles catalysts in putting together two different communities (innovators and early adopters) that would'nt talk much to each other normally.