Does every man need a good quality black captoe?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by acousticfoodie, Jul 24, 2011.

  1. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    Point somewhat well made Achilles. At least to the point that I apparently offended you, which was not my intention. For that I apologize.

    Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. I whole heartedly agree. But if they wish to state their opinion in a public forum they might do well to be prepared to discuss it further - as it is possible that their opinion might not hold up well under closer scrutiny.

    Based on my personal observation of the world I logically have every reason to believe that my presumption about the poster's exposure to the world is probably accurate - even though I don't know him at all. Although, as I've already said - he should please feel free to let me know if I am mistaken.

    But here's the deal guys - based on real life experience. I travel the world and spend plenty of time in the company of the world's billionaires, middle eastern oil sheiks, and various celebutants. Now, just in case you think I'm being pretentious let me also make it clear that I'm not one of them - I'm just the hired help who happens to be on hand to design their homes, private jets, executive office suites and yachts - and in the process I hang out in their world quite a bit. These people, young and old alike, pay my firm literally millions of dollars to offer them our opinions on matters of TASTE.

    I can promise you that the world over those men who have power, money, class and who aspire to dress well DO NOT WEAR BROWN SHOES to social events such as evening weddings, cocktail parties, or dinners out after dark which require a suit. I just don't actually see it happening anywhere but occasionally on the foot of a celebrity in the US or sometimes a fashionista in Italy. And in that case it's not some run of the mill brown shoe - it's a STATEMENT shoe.

    Sorry to burst ya'lls bubble here. But that's my eye witness account of how it's currently done around the world by those at the top of the social heap who consider themselves well dressed. Perhaps it will change at some point in the future - but for the moment black shoes are still the symbol of well dressed after dark in dressy settings.

    So, based on my personal observations, even though I don't imagine the poster to whom I was responding will have the courage to admit that my assumption about his world view is indeed correct, I am nearly 100% certain that it is.

    It's perfectly cool for you to wear whatever you want - hell - wear purple shoes with green stripes and pink polka dots if you want. There is no official enforcement agency for what is right or wrong. Just don't fool yourself into thinking you're going to impress everyone with them if you do. One man's treasure is another man's trash.

    And bear in mind that this thread started out as a question about what is considered appropriate - not what is considered 'cool'.

    The point of any conversation about what is 'proper' in clothing is to help us all understand what we are communicating to others with our clothes - thus it''s important to understand how other's perceive our message. Once that is understood then by all means make your own choices.

    To me your brown shoes with dark suits after dark communicate either a total lack of sophistication or a big 'ol FU to the world.

    To some of you my black shoes apparently mean 'old fuddy duddy'.

    That's life guys!
     


  2. laufer

    laufer Senior member

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    This has been my experience too. I have met some men (from business and diplomacy) in the other words with many and influence. From my observation they tend to wear black shoes a lot.

    Style Forum has become community with its own culture and norms. One of those norms almost a law it semms is that black shoes are just for funerals and interviews. This is stupid. As long as you show up in clean shoes nobody will care if they black or brown.

    I have commited capital SF offense recently. I comisioned a pair of black bespoke shoes.
     


  3. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Senior member

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    LOL :fu:
     


  4. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Senior member

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    wait, so you base your opinion on shoe color choice on middle eastern oil sheikhs (the pinnacle of taste and class btw), billionaires (damn, bill gates and warren buffet sure do dress snazzy) and celebutants (need I say more?).

    The color of one's shoes has nothing to do with sophistication
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011


  5. Yachting Man

    Yachting Man Senior member

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    To me a cap toe isn't that formal. I wear a balmoral toe cap two to three times a week to work. Concerning the OP when I think of super formal shoes opera pumps come to mind.
     


  6. Master-Classter

    Master-Classter Senior member

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    interesting perspective GDot, thanks for sharing (no troll)
     


  7. philosophe

    philosophe Senior member

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    OP, if $200 doesn't break the bank for you AND the shoes feel good on your feet, go for it. Do not spend $200 on shoes that aren't a good last for your foot.
     


  8. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    +1

    And this is what I am attempting to communicate to the 'crowd' here at Style Forum. That this 'group think' regarding black shoes is just as much a Style Forum 'follow the rules' sort of thinking as wearing black shoes after dark in dressy settings is to most of the rest of the world.

    It's not that one is inherently right and one is inherently wrong - it's a matter of understanding what you are communicating to whom and then choosing what you want to say.

    I will also say that anyone who thinks they are not being constantly judged, evaluated, and arranged by rank, based on their appearance has not reached even a vague understanding of the world around him. Clothing and personal appearaance has been a symbol of wealth, power, rank, social acceptability, and plain old popularity for as long as there has been civilization - this is not likely to change anytime soon.

    It's not by any means the ONLY tool available to a man to influence the world around him - but's its a powerful one for certain.
     


  9. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    Thanks master - no troll here either. :embar:
     


  10. Achilles_

    Achilles_ Senior member

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    Interesting. I still think it's off base, but to each their own.

    Second, I think it would be extremely boring if everyone wore only black shoes in the evening.

    Also, I don't think SF hates black shoes. In fact, most people like black shoes and prefer them to any other colour with a charcoal suit. (surprised me, I figured dark brown/burgundy would win)

    I take back my post on calling you a troll, you just seemed to be a little crass/pretentious in the original post.



    Edit: Here's a link to a poll about what shoes to wear with a charcoal suit. Black dominates even here on SF

    http://www.styleforum.net/forum/thread/255301/charcoal-suit-color-of-shoes/0_30
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011


  11. Liquidus

    Liquidus Senior member

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    What you say may be true, but being a billionaire, oil sheik or celebrity doesn't necessarily make your way of dressing the "right" or the "best" way. Most people in the world, regardless of income, spend no where near the amount of effort and thought on clothing as some people on this forum. I see that you've only been here a month, so you may not have realized that no one, no matter their status, is above criticism when it comes to dressing on this forum. If dressing like the rich and famous was what people here wanted to do, they would put on an ill-fitting suit with some square toed shoes.

    While I've heard of a traditional rule against wearing brown shoes at night, I would guess that most of the people you meet with wear black shoes at night not because they're thinking of this rule, but because all their shoes are black. Most people on SF believe that this rule is obsolete and wearing brown shoes at night (in most situations) is perfectly fine provided that the shade of brown matches with your pants.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011


  12. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Senior member

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    Now wait a minute.

    What you said before is that black shoes at night equaled sophistication, and brown shoes indicated farm-boy country bumpkin. I would wager that the average person would view one of these positively and the other negatively and one right and the other wrong when discussing formal dress.

    In simple terms, you called brown wrong and black right.
     


  13. Gdot

    Gdot Senior member

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    Quad,

    Your attempt to twist my words into something that I did not say is ill conceived, crudely worded and most decidedly not sophisticated. I did not say that I based my opinion of how to dress on any specific billionaire, sheik, celebutant etc. etc. That would certainly NOT be a sophisticated move in many individual cases. But rather what I did say was that I am constantly in the world of these sorts of people and at the locations which these sorts of people haunt: ie: The world's most exclusive hotels, restaurants and bars, in the capitols of worldwide fashion and culture. These places are frequented by those who are the very definition of cultural sophistication. This doesn't make me any better or worse than anyone else - nor does it make me any sort of expert - but it does offer me the unique opportunity to observe a world first hand, up close, and frequently that most people do not ever see.

    Since you seem to wish to discuss what makes one sophisticated first we might start with a definition of the word sophistication.

    Sophistication is defined in Wikipedia as: "the quality of refinement — displaying good taste, wisdom and subtlety rather than crudeness, stupidity and vulgarity. and [1] In the perception of social class, sophistication can link with concepts such as status, privilege and superiority."[2]

    Further - Intellectual sophistication is also thought of as an understanding of highly complex sets of differentiation between various concepts and thoughts.

    Now in some ways you are correct when you simply state "The color of one's shoes has nothing to do with sophistication' . As simply the color of one's shoes has little to do with sophistication. However, the much more complex combinations of color, quality, style, shape, finish, and any number of other points about a shoe do indeed accumulate into a statement of the shoe's sophistication in terms of attire. And thus by implication, the sartorial sophistication of the wearer.

    Thus your feable attempt at making statements regarding sophistication such as the already quoted: " The color of one's shoes has nothing to do with sophistication " seems to indicate to me that you have not yet even come close to grasping what the actual concept of sophistication is in terms of attire. Nor have you demonstrated how to fully express a sophisticated thought.

    Your simplistic and inherently flawed logic in terms of the sophistication of a particular item of fashion and attire is so exactly wrong and rendered so crudely as to completely betray your ignorance of the matter entirely. Really dude - you wish to debate with me with the words 'The color of one's shoes has nothing to do with sophistication'. :crackup:

    You might well make a case that the color your shoes has nothing to do with being well mannered, or behaving like a 'classy' person in terms of having respect to others, or any number of other assertions. However, in terms of your sartorial sophistication the color of your shoes is a very important factor.

    Sorry - but you really are starting to make a fool of yourself here - perhaps you should stop talking now before it gets any worse for you. And my advice to me, which I will follow, is to not respond to your 'baited jabs' any further.

    Oh - and one other thing - since you apparently have yet to aquire any real idea of what constitutes sophisticated attire - my advice to you remains as it has always been - follow the simple 'rules' which are currently in place in order not to make a fool of yourself in situations that you do not apparently understand. WEAR BLACK SHOES to evening weddings, funerals and any function after dark in which you wear a charcoal or black suit.

    All the best!
     


  14. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Senior member

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    sigh, you wasted an awful lot of your time writing something that has no point and very little actual substance. So keep puffing your chest about the people you are in contact with and the places you travel to, and I'll continue to wear brilliant brown shoes.
     


  15. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    Look, no offense but if you help oil sheiks and celebrities it basically means you're not in contact with people who know anything about what is traditionally appropriate (well in western culture). On the other hand you happen to be right, especially as seen from a British/commonwealth perspective (Mediterranean care less).

    A few things about my own opinion/experience:
    -people don't know shit about protocol in most/all circles, they know the small fragments that they need to but that's about it. Prince Charles might though but he looks like Dumbo and is a dumb fuck. The number of people who send flowers to the "lady of the house" the day before/actual day (tradition varies) being invited to dine is quite small, it looks stupid most of the times anyway. Same thing for most traditions.
    -Generally speaking people wear black shoes. If you see brown shoes it is either due to some regional peculiarities (i.e. your Italian example) or the person being a moderate to hardcore clotheshorse.
    -When it's fucking hot people wear lighter colours and lighter shoes, even in the evening and this is true in all circles I've seen. Not really surprising as light beige linen suits and black shoes usually don't marry too well.
    -I wear black shoes/boots or white sneakers most of the time. I dunno what the rule about dirty white sneakers in the evening is or how the establishment would deal with the situation. My experience is most people don't give much of a fuck or even like it.
     


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