Does anyone notice demographic differences in major shoe brand wearers / buyers?

[Krish the Fish]

N of 1 but I bought my first (and second through fifth) pair of Lobbs along with my Fukudas, EGs, etc. in my twenties. All of them have lasted through to my mid thirties now but I am moving toward bespoke for shoes (along with everything else) in the near long term. My experience is the opposite of all of my friends and peers, who scoff at the idea of even paying $500 for a pair of shoes, let alone an order of magnitude higher

 

[Texasmade]

N of 1 but I bought my first (and second through fifth) pair of Lobbs along with my Fukudas, EGs, etc. in my twenties. All of them have lasted through to my mid thirties now but I am moving toward bespoke for shoes (along with everything else) in the near long term. My experience is the opposite of all of my friends and peers, who scoff at the idea of even paying $500 for a pair of shoes, let alone an order of magnitude higher

Pretty much same as me. Bought all my JL and Corthays in my 20’s through early 30’s. Been slowly moving to bespoke since mid 30’s.

 

[chrlsful]

Income (or wealth) is not necessarily associated with age as is true w/’shoe knowledge’ (or interest, ie preference to spend otherwise).
“...any demographic / age differences in different shoe brands...."
I cant say as I dont have enuff knowledge of the range of brands you refer to. One by one (a brand you’d like to speculate about matched to specific ages) might be more possible to answer~
One thing I would say is a shoe w/more visual flash (whatever that may B) is more likely to B seen on younger men. We tend to get more conservative (not just in fashion) as we age. This sez no thing abt ‘demographics’ (income, geography, etc).

 

[Pascal1980]

Hello everyone,

to be able to afford high-end shoes in the >1000$/€ range in your 20s you must have had a high income then already. In Germany we still study for our master's degrees, or become doctoral students with a 1000€ to 1500€ monthly net income, or work full-time after finishing the apprenticeship.

Hence very very few Germans in their 20s earn enough to afford such luxury shoes, maybe 1-2 pairs a year instead of owning a car, or longer vacations. It depends on priorities.

Here most people buy their first goodyear-welted shoes at Shoepassion for 300€ or a Crockett & Jones benchgrade for 650€ for their wedding at the end of their 20s or in their 30s. And then only if they live in a major city where these shoes are available.

Otherwise it is a small niche, and I learned about it in 2022, when I moved back into consulting, at the age of 42.

Best regards

Pascal

 

[chrlsful]

I tried to correct the “earned" by stating “wealthy”. "Being rich’ is not neccessarily from going to work. In fact much wealth comes from 100 + yrs ago~

 

[Pascal1980]

I tried to correct the “earned" by stating “wealthy”. "Being rich’ is not neccessarily from going to work. In fact much wealth comes from 100 + yrs ago~

Hello chrisful,

actually economic research in wealth creation and household finance shows that contrary to public media, around 75% of a generation's millionairs and billionairs are self-made entrepreneurs running successful businesses. Only few are extremly well paid CEOs, athlets or entertainment stars.

Inherited wealth matter for the remaining 25%. Nonetheless, the "Shirtsleeves to Shirtsleeves" effect often occurs, which means that the inherited wealth cannot be maintained as the entrepreneurial mind and discipline are missing, which diminishes the wealth. Another cause of the"Shirtsleeves to Shirtsleeves" effect is insufficient succession and wealth transfer planning, high inheritance taxes, closing of tax loopholes in trusts, and family quarrels. On the other hand, the "Rockefeller Strategy" and "Waterfall Effect" are means to use tax-efficient trusts, inherited tax-free life insurance constructs, tax-advantages Roth IRA accounts etc. to shield inherited wealth from taxes when transferred to the next generation.

So the research on the effect of inhereted wealth is still open-ended and other effects play a role.

However, I can only wholeheardly recommend every infant to chose a rich and financially educated family before being born. ;-)

Best regards

Pascal

 

[Markus123456789]

Well for starters, US peeps can have 'free' imports under $800, whereas EU countries love their taxes.

This means importing Alden, Allen Edmonds, Truman, Nick's etc. across the pond is a no-go where US customers can import Carmina, Northampton brands etc. freely. Only fitting and returning is an obstacle, but offset by having to pay little to no taxes.

Meermin, Carlos Santos, TLB, Carmina and all Italian brands have the benefit of being in the EU, where UK decided they would be better off leaving, so Northampton brands are 33-50% more expensive in their respective quality price points.

In the EU people do tend to navigate to the Northampton made brands though since the quality/value is still there. I think Italy is even more popular as those offer many blake stitched shoes which are slightly cheaper in general.

 

[Markus123456789]

Well for starters, US peeps can have 'free' imports under $800, whereas EU countries love their taxes.

This means importing Alden, Allen Edmonds, Truman, Nick's etc. across the pond is a no-go where US customers can import Carmina, Northampton brands etc. freely. Only fitting and returning is an obstacle, but offset by having to pay little to no taxes.

Meermin, Carlos Santos, TLB, Carmina and all Italian brands have the benefit of being in the EU, where UK decided they would be better off leaving, so Northampton brands are 33-50% more expensive in their respective quality price points.

In the EU people do tend to navigate to the Northampton made brands though since the quality/value is still there. I think Italy is even more popular as those offer many blake stitched shoes which are slightly cheaper in general.

I am not sure that this is correct. Most Northhampton makers offer DDP to the E.U. and the prices appear to be similar.

Take the C&J Molton as example, which costs 475 Pounds in the UK and EUR 575 in the E.U.

 

[Pascal1980]

I am not sure that this is correct. Most Northhampton makers offer DDP to the E.U. and the prices appear to be similar.

Take the C&J Molton as example, which costs 475 Pounds in the UK and EUR 575 in the E.U.

Hello Markus,

what do you mean with "DDP"?

.. found it: DDP - Delivered Duty Paid = The seller pays all import/custom duties and taxes.

Best regards

Pascal

 

[Ypuh]

For comparison a pair of Tricker's Stow costs €685,- (GBP 575) here and a pair of C&J Pembroke's €675,- (GBP 565). That's full price including 21% VAT and shipping. Did catch somewhere that on UK produces items the EU does not charge the 17% import tax and the higher VAT I can live with. Maybe I was wrong and being based in the UK does not offer a price benefit.

Importing from the US does not have the same trade agreement as the EU-UK does for UK-made shoes, so 17% import duties do apply. That puts brands like Alden out of the equation (paying more for lesser quality).

 

[Markus123456789]

For comparison a pair of Tricker's Stow costs €685,- (GBP 575) here and a pair of C&J Pembroke's €675,- (GBP 565). That's full price including 21% VAT and shipping. Did catch somewhere that on UK produces items the EU does not charge the 17% import tax and the higher VAT I can live with. Maybe I was wrong and being based in the UK does not offer a price benefit.

Importing from the US does not have the same trade agreement as the EU-UK does for UK-made shoes, so 17% import duties do apply. That puts brands like Alden out of the equation (paying more for lesser quality).

My experience is that there is quite often no price difference if a UK seller uses DDP. For example, Permanent Style charges exactly the same whether you are based in the UK or Austria were I life, both countries having 20% VAT. Of course, and understandably, shipping is more expensive to Austria.

Some brands, like Drake's, are quite sneaky. They offer DDP but have very different prices for the products on their website whether you access the webpage from the EU (more expensive, sometimes by far) or the UK.

Other sellers, like Colhay's, do not offer DDP, which I found to be problematic as a EU customer. In theory, this should not make a difference because I can buy Colhay's products from their webpage without UK tax. But when the articles are sent to me, the delivery company (e.g. UPS, DHL, etc) takes care of the Austrian VAT, which is convenient, but they charge a very hefty fee for doing so which you cannot avoid, so the product gets much more expensive.

 

[chrlsful]

“...actually economic research in wealth creation and household finance shows... around 75% of a generation's millionairs and billionairs are self-made entrepreneurs..."
I’m sayin this is usa only, now:
“...What percentage of wealth in the US is inherited?

Of the total wealth of the population, Kessler and Masson estimated that 35 percent originated from inheritances or gifts.
https://www.bls.gov/osmr/research-papers/2011/pdf/ec110030.pdf

Inheritances and the Distribution of Wealth Or Whatever ...​

Bureau of Labor Statistics (.gov)... "

 

[Pascal1980]

“...actually economic research in wealth creation and household finance shows... around 75% of a generation's millionairs and billionairs are self-made entrepreneurs..."
I’m sayin this is usa only, now:
“...What percentage of wealth in the US is inherited?

Of the total wealth of the population, Kessler and Masson estimated that 35 percent originated from inheritances or gifts.
https://www.bls.gov/osmr/research-papers/2011/pdf/ec110030.pdf

Inheritances and the Distribution of Wealth Or Whatever ...​

View attachment 2330865
Bureau of Labor Statistics (.gov)... "

Thanks chrisful,

we expect more wealth transfers with inheritence in Germany, because the "Baby-Boomers" did not experience of a destruction of their wealth due to wars. It is the first European generation that did not experience a major war that destroyed real estate and physical capital in factories, etc.. Hwoever, the biggest inheritance package is the owned and mortgage-free family house. Financial wealth in terms of stock or bond portfolios does not play a role in Germany. Most business are not so large to make the children multi-millionairs, as the typical SME in Germany is a few hundred thousand €.

Best regards

Pascal

 

[chrlsful]

usa as well: “...biggest inheritance package is the owned and mortgage-free family house...” for the middle and above class. It totally passed by the 40% of non-N. European (born 1st 2 decades of 20th century) mericans due to no GI Bill (mortgage) and “Red Lining” (“Do not allow those ppl to buy/live in our neighborhood”) also this same generation But continuing to this day. It seems Germany has dealt fairly well (a few skin heads here’n there) w/past demons; merica has a different legacy (African-American & Indigenous peoples, other minorities) and has not faced it for 3, 400 yrs. Congradulations to your country.

 

[DapperDan15]

Thanks chrisful,

we expect more wealth transfers with inheritence in Germany, because the "Baby-Boomers" did not experience of a destruction of their wealth due to wars. It is the first European generation that did not experience a major war that destroyed real estate and physical capital in factories, etc.. Hwoever, the biggest inheritance package is the owned and mortgage-free family house. Financial wealth in terms of stock or bond portfolios does not play a role in Germany. Most business are not so large to make the children multi-millionairs, as the typical SME in Germany is a few hundred thousand €.

Best regards

Pascal

I don't know about your German boomers, but here in Canada the boomers are not passing down inheritances so their children can buy fine shoes. Much more likely to sell their house, waste the profits on vacations in their "retirement" phase, and spend the rest on an old folks home. Millennials are suiting themselves, literally.