Now that's funny. I learned the ropes on darktide (Asheron's Call), which any hardcore pvper with any basis for comparison will tell you was THE best pvp server ever. It had all of the elements required from a game mechanics perspective until bugs and exploiting ruined it. Nothing in DAoC can compare and I'll tell you why. DAoC doesn't have the game mechanics to make a truely good pvp game. You can't dodge spells or attacks the way you can dodge weapons fire in an fps. It doesn't have true projectiles. Instead, it's hit/miss is based on an abstract dodge/parry skill. Or, when a melee attacks you, he sticks to you and you can't get away. He's literally tethered to your ass. A highly skilled player can't take on multiple opponents of similiar level on his own. The game mechanics make it impossible. Lastly, there were no real consequence for losing. In AC on the other hand, people got beaten-down so hard they quit the game out of frustration, rerolled, or submitted and whored xp to their enemies. DAoC's game mechanics were fundamentally based upon EQ, which was based upon dikumud. A random number generator combined with a comparison of your level and character skills vs. your opponents' determined whether you hit or miss. There were no reflexes or dexterity involved in the process. FWIW, there were no ffa pvp servers with looting at release otherwise we would have been on them. Our guild did dominate our server though, the toughest server at release btw, until we quit all at once at the end of december. We quit because we had tired of ass-raping the server and there was no good competition. And you probably don't know this, but before DAoC released, all the top pvp guilds from other games agreed to play on the merlin server to settle old scores. I'm talking about feuds and vendettas developed over 10 years of online gaming (since the early 90s). So at release we all went to this one server. Our side "won", as much as you can win, when killing someone just means they have to pay a fee and run back to the fight. We were the first to max out in levels, and the first to hit 1mil RP, which was double our closest, and much larger competitors, who also had a head start cause they knew where everything was from beta. We pushed our only real competition out of the best keeps and the best post-40 frontier leveling spots, even though they got there first, and we did it with inferior numbers, even though DAoC was all about zerging your opponent. I'm not going to pinpoint exactly who i play with since google has a long memory and I don't want to mix the two identities, but go here if you want an idea of the type of gamer i was and the guys that I played with. So blue server? No... I can pretty much guarantee that my small guild will be the top of the food chain when DF releases though. ;p Ok so you never played real hardcore PVP server (Andred/Mordred) and you ran with a strongest guild with the most relics and pressed "I WIN" button the fastest. Then you blaming Zergs on ruining the game for you? I just cannot figure why you never tried real PVP no rules server if you are such a hardcore PVPer?