Do you non-Ivy Leaguers feel inadequate?

[RJman]

Originally Posted by CTGuy

You're a little ridiculous. You take issue with me saying that on average Ivy league students are wealthier and you have a blog where you post your custom made clothing purchased while you are still a student....

Not just any custom clothing, but clothing most lawyers can't afford... Of course, you talk about having attended a boarding school, which itself is a sign of belonging to the upper middle classes as well.

 

[HomerJ]

Originally Posted by Connemara

Oh give it a ******* rest. Everybody who takes Philosophy 101 learns that.

Good catch.

 

[bslo]

Originally Posted by CTGuy

You should not feel inferior. The reality is that ivy league grads are in almost no way superior to anyone, including graduates of state colleges. The scene/quote from the book/movie A Civil Action best sums it up when Jan Schlickman says that the Harvard Law firm with the oriental carpets and the expensive furniture is a way of bullying and intimidating those not part of it. Ivy league grads are not smarter, they are not better, they are really in no way superior, except in a lot of cases their parents were probably wealthier than yours. But you will never ever find in Ivy leaguer admit they've got nothing on a state college graduate-- why should they? This myth is something that has carried them since they were 18 and probably will for much of their life.

Ivy league grads love to cite that certain banks, firms, companies only hire ivy league grads because it makes those that aren't part of the club feel as if they aren't good enough or at the very least intimidated.

But really, there is no reason to feel inferior. In my own experience, I went to a New England boarding school where I knew several people that went to each Ivy. By and large most of the Ivy leaguers were moderately intelligent people with wealthy parents who had helped pad their child's resume with expensive extracurriculars (think year abroad in China at 17), legacies, or a sport like squash. People can feel free to disagree with me, but I take pride in the fact I didn't go to an Ivy. I guess given a chance I might go to Yale, but I can only imagine what a colossal prick I would be today.

It's really hard to understand exactly what you are arguing. Ivy league graduates are no better on average than the graduates of any other school in the country (or any "fine" state school or any other private school)? Bullshit! Some public school graduates are better than some ivy league graduates? Obviously this is true. Who could argue otherwise?

I went to a non-prestigious undergrad, an ivy league for law school and have taught at several law schools (and am currently doing so as a career). The very best students at the 4th tier law school where I taught were excellent, and a few of them could have done quite well at a top law school. But the average student was vastly inferior to even the bottom students at my top 3 law school. This is also the case for the 3rd and 2nd tier students that I've taught (although they were much better than the students at the 4th tier school).

Incredibly gifted people often attend non-prestigious institutions for various reasons. Prestigious institutions somtimes admit marginal students. To say, though, that these facts render prestige illegitimate is obviously false (and, frankly, unsophisticated).

 

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Manton

...Wait, are we allowed to bash other schools in this thread, or is that snobbish?

I think we're allowed to bash other schools so long as they're not in the Ivy.

 

[CTGuy]

Originally Posted by Manton

Yes, in front of the Physics Lecture Hall on Mining Circle. I don't think that actually is another time, I think it still exists.

I must say, architecturally, it is a magnificent campus in most respects. Much better than Stanford, which we used to derided as the World's Largest Taco Bell.

Wait, are we allowed to bash other schools in this thread, or is that snobbish?

Was that for Feynman?

 

[Manton]

When I was there, we had something like 15 across a range of discplines, mostly the hard sciences, but at least one in Econ. I think some of them were fossilized and emeritus and so probably never used their spaces.

 

[RJman]

Originally Posted by CTGuy

Was that for Feynman?

Surely you're joking!

 

[CTGuy]

Originally Posted by bslo

It's really hard to understand exactly what you are arguing. Ivy league graduates are no better on average than the graduates of any other school in the country? Bullshit! Some public school graduates are better than some ivy league graduates? Obviously this is true. Who could argue otherwise?

I went to a non-prestigious undergrad, an ivy league for law school and have taught at several law schools (and am currently doing so as a career). The very best students at the 4th tier law school where I taught were excellent, and a few of them could have done quite well at a top law school. But the average student was vastly inferior to even the bottom students at my top 3 law school. This is also the case for the 3rd and 2nd tier students that I've taught (although they were much better than the students at the 4th tier school).

Incredibly gifted people often attend non-prestigious institutions for various reasons. Prestigious institutions somtimes admit marginal students. To say, though, that these facts render prestige illegitimate is obviously false (and, frankly, unsophisticated).

It's always amusing how the Ivy league grads take issue with my comments.

 

[RJman]

Originally Posted by CTGuy

It's always amusing how the Ivy league grads take issue with my comments.

Damn their privileged hides.

 

[poly800rock]

Originally Posted by FabricOfSociety

Ivy League typically refers to eight East Coast schools. I would guess graduates of Stanford, MIT, Carnegie Mellon, William & Mary, etc. don't feel inadequate.

Being human, we all feel inadequate in some area(s) of our lives. At least it might be reasonable if we do since "pride comes before the fall."

i like how you snuck willam and mary in there, as if it's in the same league as MIT, stanford or carnegie. its not

Originally Posted by Arethusa

If I get into Brown, I'm going to go to the University of Chicago so that I can tell everyone that I went to Brown and the University of Chicago because I went to Brown and the University of Chicago.

i used to work at brown admissions

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by CTGuy

You're a little ridiculous. You take issue with me saying that on average Ivy league students are wealthier and you have a blog where you post your custom made clothing purchased while you are still a student....

.

A ha! Now I get it. This isn't about academic prestige--it's about the clothes!

Originally Posted by RJman

Not just any custom clothing, but clothing most lawyers can't afford...

So sue me.

 

[zalb916]

Originally Posted by blackplatano

Gordon Gekko went to City College.

Yes, but CCNY used to be the "poor man's Harvard" until its open admissions policy ruined the school.

This whole Ivy League discussion is so silly. There are lots of great schools all over the country that are great for so many different reasons. I visited most of the Ivy schools when I was applying for college and decided not to even apply to any of them, because they weren't the right fit for me. I wanted a small liberal arts school education and applied accordingly. I'm sure I could have gone to an Ivy if I had applied, but I had no interest. My graduate education and professional life have not suffered at all.

I also grew up in Georgia and had many friends who could have gone to Ivies as well. They chose to stay in-state, went to UGA and Georgia Tech for free, and now have excellent jobs doing the exact same things my friends who graduated from Ivies do, having saved over $100,000.

Many people chose for a myriad of reasons to not go to Ivies; even though, they were much more than able to attend.

I've never come across an Ivy League graduate who did not seem qualified to attend his/her school and needed a legacy to get in. Most seem very smart and qualified. I've also only met one Harvard law grad who didn't seem like a prick.

 

[leftover_salmon]

Connemara: We get it, you wanted to get into a better school than you did. You don't need to start 5,000 posts that are variations of "Is it worth it to go to an Ivy League school?" To the Ivy haters (specifically CT Guy): Is the smartest person at Harvard smarter than the smartest person at (insert random large state school name here)? Maybe, maybe not. But it would be pretty hard to deny that Ivy League students on the whole aren't smarter than their state-school peers. Not sure what you don't get about this.

 

[bslo]

Response to CtGuy:

It always amuses me how some non-Ivy Leaguers make obviously stupid conclusions based mostly on anecdotal evidence about how they have been unimpressed with the Ivy Leaguers they have met.

Seriously, snide comments are not the equivalent of valid points.

 

[RJman]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

A ha! Now I get it. This isn't about academic prestige--it's about the clothes!
In the end, it's always about the clothes.

So sue me.

Not that kind of lawyer. Too bad, as I wouldn't mind doing some indigent defense work. One can only have so many shirts, and I'm quite happy with what I fished out of Henri Piscine and from Noiret.