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Do you know martial art? What kind? What Level?

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by Soph, Aug 7, 2006.

  1. mizanation

    mizanation Senior member

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    I know some southern and northern chinese styles (no belt rankings) and got 2nd degree black belt in tae kwon do... also limited muay thai.. I dont like grappling stuff. I learn martial arts for the fun / health of it, not to knock people out.

    it's really too bad you don't like "grappling stuff." it's such a beautiful and effective art. it's something you can do even when you are very old which i can't say about tae kwon do (if you've ever seen really old TKD people, they can barely kick over their waist--even if they were awesome when they were younger).

    i train for fun and health too. sparring in boxing and muay thai is always done with 16 oz gloves and mouthguard, usually with headgear. when grappling, everyone uses control and tapping keeps people from getting hurt.

    there is another aspect that exists in bjj. rolling with a skilled grappler is really like a chess game. no other martial art has such a deep mental/tactical aspect.

    if you're doing traditional asian styles because you like the cultural aspect then fine, but anyone who says they do it for self-defense is misleading themself.
     


  2. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    there is another aspect that exists in bjj. rolling with a skilled grappler is really like a chess game. no other martial art has such a deep mental/tactical aspect.

    Completely agree with this. In boxing, muy thai, and other primarily striking martial arts/martial sports, you can go into the ring with some broad objectives in mind (e.g. take advantage of superior reach and use a lot of jabs, minimize his reach by going in every chance, etc...) but in the end, it comes down to refexes. When going up against a similarly skilled grappler, however, there is a lot more going through your mind. You think you have an idea of what he is capable of, and he you; and you are trying to out-think him, trying to win the mind game, trying to figure out if the opening is one you can actually take advantage of, whether he is aware of it, and if it is meant to bait you, whether you think that your opponent has it in him to take the advantage, or whether you can. A million things go through your head in an instance. Very interesting and fun. Of course, it's not *all* mental.
     


  3. mizanation

    mizanation Senior member

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    ^^^^ exactly. btw, if you are in LA, you have access to such great training gyms. lucky for you.

    *edit* i see you are in boston. less lucky, but still some great places to train.
     


  4. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    ^^^^ exactly. btw, if you are in LA, you have access to such great training gyms. lucky for you.

    *edit* i see you are in boston. less lucky, but still some great places to train.


    Yeah, there is one apparently really good place, but I haven't had time to check it out yet, and I'm not practicing much anymore anyway. In Pasadena, there was a Machado Brothers Studio literally 10 minutes walk (5 if I walked fast) from where I lived. Yeah, lots of BJJ in LA.
     


  5. Buddy Love

    Buddy Love Senior member

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    there is another aspect that exists in bjj. rolling with a skilled grappler is really like a chess game. no other martial art has such a deep mental/tactical aspect.
    That's exactly the same analogy I used today to convince to my friend to start BJJ lessons. [​IMG]
     


  6. mizanation

    mizanation Senior member

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    ^^^ don't worry, once you get 'em in the door, they will be hooked and thank you for it.

    i've been trying to get my friend to do BJJ since 1996. last year when he visited me i surprised him and took him to a BJJ seminar by matt thornton. after that, he got completely hooked. now he trains 4 times a week (at machado's and chris haueter's) and just competed in his first tourney. he's lost about 25 pounds as well. this was a guy who used to do no type of physical exercise at all....
     


  7. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    hmm.

    there is a lot of speculation in this thread, but i've actually trained in most of the styles mentioned. i also compete competitively in submission wrestling and several of my good friends are pro and amateur mixed martial arts fighters (a.k.a. vale tudo, no holds barred, ultimate fighting, cage fighting, etc).

    let me tell you first off, that physical conditioning is the biggest factor in fighting. if you are strong, powerful and athletic, you will have an advantage in a fight, even over a moderately skilled (but weak) opponent.

    second of all, it doesn't matter what style you study, as long as they train full-contact with a 100% resisting opponent. what styles do this? boxing, wrestling, judo, bjj, mma, muay thai. it's no surprise that these styles are also considered the most effective martial arts. (notice i did not include krav maga and systema and other "lethal" top-secret special ops military styles)

    third, to be effective in a hand-to-hand street fight, you need to cover all the ranges of fighting--striking, clinch and ground. for striking, boxing and muay thai have the longest history of proven effectiveness. for clinch, greco-roman and judo are two of the most effective in this range. and for ground, BJJ is by far the most effective. if you become proficient in all three ranges, you will be fine in a hand-to-hand confrontation.

    lastly, and maybe the most important thing, no art will give you the magical skill of defending against a knife or a gun. any martial art that claims this is selling you a fantasy.

    the best self-defense is awareness and avoiding dangerous situations. you can avoid 99% of dangerous confrontations.


    M,

    I don't know about other "top secret" military styles, but I think that you have the wrong idea about krav.
    basically - it comes down to different attitudes - you can get in fantastic shape, and spend 10-14 hours a weeks studying 2 or 3 styles, and get to be a fantastic fighter. or, you can find something that will fit in with a normal lifestyle and take up 2-4 hours a week of your time. the advantage of krav, and I think several styles that are usually called "combatives" is the relativly short learning curve for getting to a situation where you can do pretty good damage, as long as you aren't dealing with somebody who has been putting 14 hours a week in BJJ and MT classes for the past 12 years.

    if you take 2 healthy and basically fit 18-30 year old men with no expereince, and give them some training, one in krav and one in a traditional style (or even bjj), for the first 200 hours of training or so the krav student should have the edge, and then it will flip over the the other guy.

    nothing secretive - just krav has taken out a lot of the basic stuff that you use to build a better foundation, later on, that you may very well not need if you are fighting a person who isn't a master martial artist.

    I did a 6 week krav course, about 20 years ago (on top of a few years of korean and akinawon striking styles, and about a year of judo). after 18 years of not practicing, I joined a typical american mcdojo and was able to put the fear of god into a room full of young fit black belts - who had been studying a style (or more acuratly a school) that discouraged practicing any type of real contact or realistic combat work.
     


  8. mizanation

    mizanation Senior member

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    M,

    I don't know about other "top secret" military styles, but I think that you have the wrong idea about krav.
    basically - it comes down to different attitudes - you can get in fantastic shape, and spend 10-14 hours a weeks studying 2 or 3 styles, and get to be a fantastic fighter. or, you can find something that will fit in with a normal lifestyle and take up 2-4 hours a week of your time. the advantage of krav, and I think several styles that are usually called "combatives" is the relativly short learning curve for getting to a situation where you can do pretty good damage, as long as you aren't dealing with somebody who has been putting 14 hours a week in BJJ and MT classes for the past 12 years.

    if you take 2 healthy and basically fit 18-30 year old men with no expereince, and give them some training, one in krav and one in a traditional style (or even bjj), for the first 200 hours of training or so the krav student should have the edge, and then it will flip over the the other guy.

    nothing secretive - just krav has taken out a lot of the basic stuff that you use to build a better foundation, later on, that you may very well not need if you are fighting a person who isn't a master martial artist.

    I did a 6 week krav course, about 20 years ago (on top of a few years of korean and akinawon striking styles, and about a year of judo). after 18 years of not practicing, I joined a typical american mcdojo and was able to put the fear of god into a room full of young fit black belts - who had been studying a style (or more acuratly a school) that discouraged practicing any type of real contact or realistic combat work.


    putting fear in a roomfull of mcdojo blackbelts is a HORRIBLE measure of practical effectiveness.

    let me explain my viewpoints on krav maga. some places that teach krav maga are great. however, most places, like many combatives, are just using clever marketing to mask what is more similar to a traditional martial art--with all the artificial mystique and heirarchy. there are some good schools, one of my good friends is a highly respected krav maga instructor (he also has a substantial amateur boxing career and years of competitive, black-belt level judo--coincidence?). i would DEFINITELY recommend his school, but most schools are not like that (and i think he would even agree with this).

    btw, i highly disagree about the learning curve statement--for traditional arts, yeah, of course krav maga will be more effective within the first 200 hours (or more). but for bjj? for muay thai? even for regular western boxing? come on, man! in the first 200 hours, a bjj student will learn how to take the krav maga guy down, maintain position, and apply 1-2 submissions. in muay thai and boxing, they would spend all that time sparring and conditioning and would be much more ready than the KM guy.

    also, you are saying that the only way to get good at BJJ is to put in 14 hours a week? i know plenty of people who have very busy lives who put in only a few hours a week and are pretty good.
     


  9. johnapril

    johnapril Senior member

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    My favorite was weapons practice, mostly because it was cool-looking and fun. I never had any practical use for any of the weapons or the kempo I learned.
     


  10. Gradstudent78

    Gradstudent78 Senior member

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    And what is the most effective in real world settings?

    I have to agree with the first poster, that you really need to define what effective is before you could answer this question. Keep in mind there can be a world of difference between what you would necessarily want to use if your a street fighter versus someone just interested in self defense. A street fighter is going to have to "win" where as a person interested in self defense is basically going to use a hit and run strategy the majority of the time.
     


  11. johnapril

    johnapril Senior member

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    Ever try to block a pipe wrench with your forearm?
     


  12. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Ever try to block a pipe wrench with your forearm?

    No, but I did get a hammer to the bicep once. Serious swelling. I do not recommend it. I did get a 2x4 to the fleshy part of the forearm once. Nothing as bad as a pipewrench, but the pain shot up my whole side, and I didn't have much of a left grip for the rest of that week [​IMG]
     


  13. TKDKid

    TKDKid Senior member

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    Taekwondo is about as useful as Iaido in a fight.
    Tell that to Hwang Jang Lee. [​IMG]
     


  14. skalogre

    skalogre Senior member

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    Talking of iaido, Kendo & Araki Mujinsai ryu iai for me [​IMG]
     


  15. Brian SD

    Brian SD Moderator

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    That's precisely not why I do it (thought I mentioned that).
     


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