• Hi, I am the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • This site contains affiliate links for which Styleforum may be compensated.
  • We would like to welcome House of Huntington as an official Affiliate Vendor. Shop past season Drake's, Nigel Cabourn, Private White V.C. and other menswear luxury brands at exceptional prices below retail. Please visit the Houise of Huntington thread and welcome them to the forum.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

    Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Do you agree with Brummel?

Cantabrigian

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
4,755
Reaction score
1,871
Soph's comments on those LE Santonis got me thinking about this--

Beau Brummel is reputed to have said something to the effect of (I've seen a number of phrasings of varing apparent authenticity batted around the forums but this is the most official-looking version that I could find with a quick googling):

If people turn to look at you in the street, you are not well dressed...

I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on that - will a well dressed guy (by forum standards) distinctly not attract attention?
 

gdl203

Purveyor of the Secret Sauce
Affiliate Vendor
Dubiously Honored
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
45,595
Reaction score
54,357
Simply put - I disagree with that. I don't see anything wrong with catching someone's eye with an interesting detail or color. As long as the outfit is not so distracting that one looks like a clown or as trying too hard. As far as I am concerned, I can guarantee you that I do not turn to look at poorly dressed people but I often like to check out an interesting pair of shoes, tie, jacket...

Furthermore, from what I read, Beau was considered an authority in terms of men style (advising the king in that regard, etc...) and I would bet that many people would actually turn to look at him
 

Manton

RINO
Joined
Apr 20, 2002
Messages
41,314
Reaction score
2,879
The full quote is: "If John Bull [the English everyman] turns round to look at you, you are not well dressed, but either too stiff, too tight, or too fashionable." Quoted in the memoirs of his friend Captain Jesse, so presumably even if it is not word-for-word accurate, it expresses an idea that Brummell actually held to.
 

Maharlika

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
2,126
Reaction score
4
I agree with Beau Brummel on that one. Clothes should be understated and should not overwhelm the person wearing it. It's all about elegance and the art of discretion. Some of the best dressed men in modern history is the former Duke of Windsor and Cary Grant. That would be a good example of elegance.
 

gdl203

Purveyor of the Secret Sauce
Affiliate Vendor
Dubiously Honored
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
45,595
Reaction score
54,357
Originally Posted by Maharlika
I agree with Beau Brummel on that one. Clothes should be understated and should not overwhelm the person wearing it. It's all about elegance and the art of discretion. Some of the best dressed men in modern history is the former Duke of Windsor and Cary Grant. That would be a good example of elegance.

From the pictures I've seen of the Duke, I can guarantee that people turned around to look at him. He definitely stood out of his contemporary crowd
 

Get Smart

Don't Crink
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
12,102
Reaction score
271
context makes a quote like that irrelevant to *our* times

in Brummel's day, there definitely wasn't as much freedom of sartorial expression as there is now. so to break out of your social class' norm would be headturning, in a negative way

There are so many ways of expressing yourself today and so many reasons to turn heads that have nothing to do with being dressed poorly
 

Manton

RINO
Joined
Apr 20, 2002
Messages
41,314
Reaction score
2,879
It may help a bit to put Brummell's remarks in context. Two basic points:

1) His times followed a rather flamboyant period of dress, particularly among the aristocracy. Indeed, George IV when not under Brummell's influence, tended to overdress rather outrageously. Brummell was a great simplifier of men's clothing. So in part, I think, the remark is meant to stigmatize the kinds of clothing that he repudiated and helped to make obsolete.

2) Brummell was slavishly immitated in his time. Like all originals that get copied, his original was subject to abuse by copiers who didn't quite "get" it. Brummell believed that many of his acolytes went too far and ended up cartoonish. I think in part the remark was meant to refer to them.

"Turns round to look at you" is an interesting way to put it. Most of us would, I assume, admit that we occasionally turn round to look at beautiful women. How many of us actually turn around to look at well dressed men? I would say, for me, almost never, if ever. That's not to say that I don't notice one when I see one on the street, however.
 

edmorel

Quality Seller!!
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
25,963
Reaction score
5,157
I don't turn around to look at men but I notice when someone is well dressed (or when women aren't wearing underwear, but that's for another thread). Saying that if you are "noticed" you are not dressed well is incorrect from where I stand. That being said, what I notice in men are the fits of the clothing, the subtle color plays and the fabrics. I would agree that if you are a man walking down the street in a red silk suit, you will be noticed for the wrong reasons.
 

Teacher

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Messages
12,135
Reaction score
407
Originally Posted by gdl203
Simply put - I disagree with that. I don't see anything wrong with catching someone's eye with an interesting detail or color. As long as the outfit is not so distracting that one looks like a clown or as trying too hard. As far as I am concerned, I can guarantee you that I do not turn to look at poorly dressed people but I often like to check out an interesting pair of shoes, tie, jacket...

Furthermore, from what I read, Beau was considered an authority in terms of men style (advising the king in that regard, etc...) and I would bet that many people would actually turn to look at him


I think your key word here is distracting, and I would agree. There's nothing wrong with drawing a little attention, but when it's obvious to people one is dressing in order to get attention (as opposed to dressing in order to look good), then it has gone too far.
 

globetrotter

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
20,341
Reaction score
422
I agree with Brummel
 

DocHolliday

Stylish Dinosaur
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Messages
16,090
Reaction score
1,158
The issue is complicated these days by the dire state of dress in general. Even a sportcoat can "turn heads," so it's hard to live by a literal interpretation of Brummell's remark. Ultimately, I agree with Teacher that it has to come down to a question of intent (and of taste).
 

LSeca

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
1,243
Reaction score
3
Originally Posted by DocHolliday
The issue is complicated these days by the dire state of dress in general. Even a sportcoat can "turn heads," so it's hard to live by a literal interpretation of Brummell's remark. Ultimately, I agree with Teacher that it has to come down to a question of intent (and of taste).

I was just going to write basically the same thing, down to agreeing with Teacher as well. Where you live, what you do for a living, etc. has alot to do with dressing to "turn heads" too.
 

Dragon

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
3,133
Reaction score
50
These days, the last thing you want to do is dress like everyone else. Of course, if you are truly nicely dressed, heads are going to turn in this day and age.
 

Thurston

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
1,176
Reaction score
2
Originally Posted by edmorel
... I notice when someone is well dressed (or when women aren't wearing underwear, but that's for another thread).

Feel free to start that thread any time.
 

JLibourel

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
8,287
Reaction score
501
Originally Posted by DocHolliday
The issue is complicated these days by the dire state of dress in general. Even a sportcoat can "turn heads," so it's hard to live by a literal interpretation of Brummell's remark. Ultimately, I agree with Teacher that it has to come down to a question of intent (and of taste).

Agreed. I can recall one time I was going to the Bird Mart (sort of giant avian swap meet held a couple of times a year a the Pomona Fairgrounds). I was going from there to a nice birthday luncheon party my mother was hosting for me and many of my friends immediately afterward, so I was wearing a fairly mundane ensemble consisting of a blue blazer, white shirt, tie and gray flannels. I overheard somebody say, "You see all kinds of people here. Just look at that!", evidently pointing out yours truly. Now, if I had been in morning attire complete with topper, I could comprehend their singling me out.
 

Featured Sponsor

How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 55 36.2%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 59 38.8%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 17 11.2%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 26 17.1%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 26 17.1%

Forum statistics

Threads
505,158
Messages
10,578,879
Members
223,881
Latest member
Abhidshek yadav
Top