Do these shoes fit?

[DWFII]

BTW, if the 8EEE is too tight, the answer is not...repeat not...to go to an 8.5EEE. The answer is to go to an 8EEEE. Again, you cannot bump up a size (or half size) in length as a substitute for proper width. Well, you can but it's a kludge...and a poor one at that.

 

[enarchay]

Originally Posted by DWFII

Well, it shouldn't take them five minutes. But "time is money," especially in a factory context. On the other hand, it might generate some good will. Which is why a hearty "a glass with you, sir," would be in order.

Taking up their time would generate good will?

If you are buying shoes at sale or online, how many pairs do you think you're gonna be able to return? More importantly, how many too short, or too long, or too wide, or too narrow are you gonna buy before you get one that seems satisfactory?

I should be able to return them all - and I wouldn't buy them if I couldn't.

Given subjectivity, I really think it'll come down to an 8.5EEE and 8EEE, and maybe a 7.5EEE. The 8.5EEE fits fairly well, it's just a tad loose feeling, and according to you, it's too long. But it feels fine in width.

I'm a shoemaker but I've never said that bespoke was for everybody. You don't even have to buy direct from AE even if they advise what size last would fit you...you can go back to your sales and online purchases. Although they might appreciate some recompense for their service, you might find that they have a department that will sell you discontinued lines or factory seconds at a discount.

So... just call them up, and say, "Can I send you a wine-stained piece of paper?" Haha.

 

[enarchay]

Originally Posted by DWFII

BTW, if the 8EEE is too tight, the answer is not...repeat not...to go to an 8.5EEE. The answer is to go to an 8EEEE. Again, you cannot bump up a size (or half size) in length as a substitute for proper width.

Well, you can but it's a kludge...and a poor one at that.

Well, they don't even make an 8EEEE. So are you saying that the 8EEE might fit too tightly across my toes--since my foot is further forward and my toes are forced to sit in the narrowest part of the shoe? In which case, I'd need to go wider to compensate for my toes? Couldn't that make the heal loose width-wise?

 

[Claus]

If you're switching from an 8.5 EEE to an US 8 EEE, the following (probably) happens:

• The length of the last decreases by 1/6 inch (4.23 mm).
  
• The ball girth decreases by 1/8 inch (3.175 mm).
  
• The ball width decreases although one can find different statements on how much. My current estimate, based on tables available at About.com and information from the Brannock devise site, is that the average decrease seems to be about 3/32 inch per size, thus making it 3/64 inch (1.19 mm) in your case.
  
• The heel width is likely to decrease by the same amount as the ball width.

In terms of fitting:

• The heel will fit more tightly in a US 8 EEE, but it's unlikely to be significant, IMO.
  
• In the midfoot, the lower part of the lacing may press on your foot, due to your high instep. This may indeed be uncomfortable.
  
• Across the ball, it will fit more tightly. This may result in a higher pressure on your pinky toes, but only you you would be able to judge if it's uncomfortable.

In general, you can do worse than wearing a shoe that's just half a size too long, believe me!

From what I can tell so far, the biggest problem with wearing a slightly bad fitting shoe is that you may get used to it. As long as you keep this in mind when looking for your next shoes, it should be OK, I'd say.

Hope this helps.

 

[DWFII]

I agree a half size up or down may not immediately be a problem. In fact, there's an old saying "if you're gonna fit them wrong, fit them long." But you have to note the central thesis there--it's a wrong fit. Also I haven't looked at the photos the OP posted since the beginning of this thread but if I recall correctly, there is a photo of him pressing his thumb over his big toe. There appears to be significantly more than an inch beyond his thumb to the end of the shoe. And the shoe has a wide round toe. A longer fit will will increase the oblique from the back of the heel to the instep. This may relieve some pressure over the instep or it may increase heel slippage. The reverse is equally true.

the biggest problem with wearing a slightly bad fitting shoe is that you may get used to it.

Yes, you're correct...and in the process of getting "used to it" the bone structure--the architecture of the foot--will shift to accommodate the position it is being forced into. Joints will be pulled open...even if ever so slightly...and the body, in defense, will accrete calcium into the gaps to compensate. Ligaments will stretch and whole relationships will be altered. Arches will lose the buttressing that nature provided for that particular foot. Will it hurt? Will it be uncomfortable? Probably not...at least not in the short term. Over a lifetime...? My experience is that it's a little like smoking...you takes your chances. smoke 'em if you got 'em...

 

[enarchay]

DWFII, I'm analytic and a perfectionist, but I'm not sure I'm as analytic or a as much a perfectionist as you! I look at it this way. Probably my whole life, I've never had a "perfect" fit. I wore mostly "skate" shoes, and you can imagine how much knowledge the average shoe salesman has. I continue to wear casual shoes, like boat shoes and sneakers, and I am limited to ordering by size. These shoes are comfortable, there's no slippage, and they're not too narrow. But I wonder if these shoes would live up to your standards? I'm just looking to get a shoe that fits me as good as any other shoe I've worn. And I've never been uncertain of the "fit" of a shoe in the past because I had the option to try on different sizes until I was satisfied. So I'll be happy if I can get an affordable (on-sale) AE in a size that fits me just as well as previous shoes and is just as comfortable. Now, the 8-last seems alright for my foot; I've read that it is suited for a high instep. The EEE seems perfectly wide enough, at least in a 8.5. And there are no stores in my area - so it's not like I can try on different lasts to compare. And even if there were stores in my area, chances are, they don't have my size; assuming I need a EEE in other lasts, few stores seem to carry that size. So the question is... which shoe fits me better by these standards? (And I suspect these are the standards by which the majority of SF posters buy their shoes.) The 8.5EEE, or 8EEE? I called up AE to see if they have the shoe in my size. They said they should be able to get an 8EEE in about 7-10 days since it is on backorder. Now the question is... do I give this a shot and see how it fits? There could be a good chance that it'll be too small, in which case I'm just wasting my time. Between sending stuff back and whatnot, this will be a long time before I actually get to wear and be happy with my purchase. I'm not sure what to do. It's also worth mentioning that AE is selling the shoes cheaper than Endless--$149 instead of $194 (what I paid). I'll probably just order them. The price to pay for peace of mind could be free--with returns.

 

[DWFII]

I have not seen your foot. I haven't held or measured it. I don't know how AE lasts correspond to US Grading Standards. I don't know how they correspond to your foot.

I am not going to advise you to buy one size or the other. I'm not going to advise you to buy one brand or the other.

All I can, and am willing to do is tell you the way I see it from the perspective of someone who makes shoes and boots and has dealt with feet for four decades.

I can give you facts, the benefit of my experience...such as it is...the logic that emerges from a synthesis of these things, but you must make the decision.

I'm sure you'll do fine.

 

[Claus]

Originally Posted by DWFII

I agree a half size up or down may not immediately be a problem. In fact, there's an old saying "if you're gonna fit them wrong, fit them long." But you have to note the central thesis there--it's a wrong fit.

To correct a possible misunderstanding: my above comment rest on the assumption, we're talking about this particular pair of shoes.

In general, of course, one should try to get shoes with the best possible fit!

 

[enarchay]

Originally Posted by DWFII

I have not seen your foot. I haven't held or measured it. I don't know how AE lasts correspond to US Grading Standards. I don't know how they correspond to your foot.

I am not going to advise you to buy one size or the other. I'm not going to advise you to buy one brand or the other.

All I can, and am willing to do is tell you the way I see it from the perspective of someone who makes shoes and boots and has dealt with feet for four decades.

I can give you facts, the benefit of my experience...such as it is...the logic that emerges from a synthesis of these things, but you must make the decision.

I'm sure you'll do fine.

I appreciate all the help. I know I must be driving you all crazy.

 

[enarchay]

Here's what I ended up doing. They had the McClain in merlot in a 8EEE, so I ordered that and the McClain in chili in a 8EEE. I should receive the merlot version the end of the week. I'll try it on. If it fits, then I'll send them back, and keep my order for the chili version--which is on back order. If it doesn't fit, then I send them back, and call and cancel my order, and keep the 8.5EEE. This should give me piece of mind: I'll wind up with the best possible fit for that particular model--which is all I ever really wanted, given my spending limits. I'll post to let you guys know what I think. I might end up posting some more pictures if things are still uncertain. But I think I should probably be able to tell instantly: it'll either be way too tight or fit me just as well as my other shoes. I actually might end up liking the merlot better than the chili in which case I'll just keep those and cancel the order on the chili shoes. However, the pebble-grain chili are probably more versatile, don't you think? I'm going to be wearing these shoes dressed down more than dressed up, so pebble-grain would probably be better.

 

[enarchay]

Update: I called up AE to see if they had the McClain in a 8EEE so I could try them on and determine which size fit me better. Unfortunately, the McClain in pebble-grain chili is out of stock (and for good), but they had the McClain in merlot. I ordered the McClain in merlot so I could compare. I received the shoes today and tried them on. I expected the fit to be obvious, but I'm still unsure. The 8EEE fits me better in length; there is no heel slippage at all, and after walking back and forth a few times, it doesn't appear that the narrower width affects my toes much, if at all. However, the 8EEE is uncomfortable on the back of my foot (by my heel), though this is sort of hard to explain. When I walk, as my foot flexes, it's as if the back of the shoe digs into my foot. I don't know what would be causing this, and I wonder if it is a matter of breaking in. In the case of the 8.5EEE, though, there is no discomfort in the heel. Here are some pictures (excuse my gym socks; I'm wearing them just to try the shoes on): #1 Edge of my big toe. #2 This seems to be the widest part of my foot (i.e. by the ball of my foot). #3 Same spot, different angle. In short, I'm still not sure which shoe fits me better. The 8.5EEE looks slightly too long, and there is slight heel slippage. But the 8EEE causes the heel discomfort, and may be too narrow for my toes--though I haven't noticed this so far. Hypothetically, if the 8EEE fits better, I'm in a sort of dilemma. I would much rather have the McClain in chili, and I can't get the shoe in chili in a 8EEE for the same price I paid--unless I found some dealer who has it in store and would be willing to ship it to me, which would be a lot of work to determine. So, hypothetically, if the 8EEE fits better, I either keep the shoe in merlot for a better fit but less favorable color, or deal with wearing a shoe a half size too big but in a color I really like. Oh, and if I do decide to keep the shoe in merlot, Endless could always reject my return on the shoe in chili (I did wear it around the house a lot because I was unsure of the fit); in that case, I'll just keep the shoe in chili and deal with it. What do you guys think? What would you do in my situation? Keep in mind: I'm on a budget, and my goal wasn't to get a perfect fit or anything (which would require to go bespoke), but rather to get the best possible fit for this specific model (the McClain). I could go for other discontinued models (which are affordable) and find a better fit for my foot, but with all the various lasts and a lack of local dealers, such a search could take ages, so I think I'm best sticking with the McClain in a fit that is good by most AE-buyers' standards.

 

[enarchay]

Just put the 8.5EEE on my left foot and the 8EEE on my right foot. I notice that the 8.5EEE feels more comfortable; my foot flexes better, and it feels less stiff. I'm not sure if this has something to do with the different fabrics and the fact that the 8EEE is right out of the box with only 5 minutes of wear, or if it's because the ball of my foot is too far forward in the 8EEE. Definitely have more toe room (width-wise) in the 8.5EEE (which is a good thing). Starting to think the 8.5EEE might be the better bet, despite initial doubts. I'll walk around a little while longer.

 

[dg36]

Don't over analyze and go with the 8.5EEE.

If the shoe fits... wear it!

 

[enarchay]

Originally Posted by dg36

Don't over analyze and go with the 8.5EEE.

If the shoe fits... wear it!

Yeah, pretty sure I'm going to stick with the 8.5EEE--which is great, since I wanted the shoe in chili anyway!

 

[enarchay]

Decided to keep the shoes in the 8.5EEE. I think I made the right choice. I wore them for a walk on the boardwalk this evening and they seem to be getting even more comfortable as I break them in. After walking around a few miles, the length doesn't seem to be an issue, as well; the shoes fit just as well as--if not better than--my Sperry boat shoes of which I had the option to try on multiple sizes.