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Do any of you believe in God?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by DBoon, Oct 16, 2010.

  1. Matt

    Matt Senior member

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    Hi there, I'm catholic too and went to church today for the first time in a few months. I was very busy for a majority of those past weeks with school and work on Sundays, but I can't say that was an excuse to not give an hour of my time each week. During and after mass, I lost that guilty feeling of having missed church, and having listened to an exceptional homily from our campus minister, I felt rejuvenated and accepting of God's plan for me. Life doesn't always make sense for a 20-year-old trying to find a way through relationships and immaturity, but having a community of fellow religious students to share the Word with and to know that they are in the same transitions of life is comforting. To answer your question, yes, I have faith in a God. Regards, Mick
    it was just a matter of time....ok...here we go....mod hat on.
     
  2. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    I believe in, "Oh, God!"


    - B
     
  3. rob

    rob Senior member

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    i am not claiming that their is not god. i just doubting that it is neither rational nor warranted. one could make an argument for the sensual experience as being basic possibly, but that is doubtable as well. frankly the the plantinga argument to me on this point is bs. it seems a simple of avoiding one in the first place. you coaim belief belief god is basic thus you need not give any proof..... what makes beliefs in gods rational or warranted?
    If it is a requirement for all basic beliefs to have evidence, then there is no such thing as a basic belief, only beliefs that we hold on the evidence of other beliefs. Yes? That doesn't seem to make any sense at all. But if that is what you believe, then what evidence do you have for your belief that god doesn't exist? And if that evidence is weak or refuted, then we must believe that god does in fact exist, right? That doesn't seem to make any sense either. Better to admit there are beliefs we hold not on the basis of any other beliefs. Rob
     
  4. Mickgriddle

    Mickgriddle New Member

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    Honest question, not trying to troll... but does that make any sense at all? Maybe this is exposing me as the empiricist that I may very well be, but isn't that the same as going "I believe in unicorns. I can't explain it and if you were to argue with me rationally I may well lose. It doesn't matter; I believe nonetheless."?

    It's the same idea no matter what the subject is, but the aim is not to think in the terms of syntax, but rather in qualitative meaning. The fact that they follow with an honest "I can't explain it" offers a disclaimer or sorts. I don't believe faith can be rationalized all that well: it is what it is.
    -Mick
     
  5. Tck13

    Tck13 Senior member

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    what evidence do you have for your belief that god doesn't exist?

    It's not up to those that don't believe to produce evidence that something doesn't exist.

    It's up to those that believe to show evidence that what they believe in exists. If the evidence for belief is shown to be faulty or inconsistent or whatever, then there's no reason to believe.

    Atheism exists because there are those that believe in God. If there was no religion atheists wouldn't exist.
     
  6. Nosu3

    Nosu3 Senior member

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    And please add what evidence is there for the proposition that god does not exist.

    It is not possible to prove god doesn't exist.
     
  7. scarphe

    scarphe Senior member

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    If it is a requirement for all basic beliefs to have evidence, then there is no such thing as a basic belief, only beliefs that we hold on the evidence of other beliefs. Yes? That doesn't seem to make any sense at all.

    But if that is what you believe, then what evidence do you have for your belief that god doesn't exist? And if that evidence is weak or refuted, then we must believe that god does in fact exist, right? That doesn't seem to make any sense either. Better to admit there are beliefs we hold not on the basis of any other beliefs.

    Rob


    no a requirement for a basic belife if they exist...(i do not like the concept) is not evidence but instead a hard qualifier, what makes belief x rational and warranted. i am not saying you need evidnce but you need to qulaify why belife in gods is rational and warranted. something form the limited reading of palntinga i have seen is not properly investigated much liek the concept of natural evil.


    again i repeating myself, my englsih is bad but nto that bad, i nevr said gods do nto exist i am simply doubting that a propasition of this sort is clearly evident, rational nor warranted.
     
  8. rob

    rob Senior member

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    It's not up to those that don't believe to produce evidence that something doesn't exist. It's up to those that believe to show evidence that what they believe in exists. If the evidence for belief is shown to be faulty or inconsistent or whatever, then there's no reason to believe. Atheism exists because there are those that believe in God. If there was no religion atheists wouldn't exist.
    And why is that? If I have the epistemic obligation to provide evidence for some proposition p, would not you have the same epistemic obligation to provide evidence for the proposition (not) p? For example, I have no evidence that you exist other than a written statements on a web-forum. Never met you, saw you, talked to you, shook your hand. Am I irrational in believing you exist? Your last statement makes no sense at all. Rob
     
  9. rob

    rob Senior member

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    no a requirement for a basic belife if they exist...(i do not like the concept) is not evidence but instead a hard qualifier, what makes belief x rational and warranted. i am not saying you need evidnce but you need to qulaify why belife in gods is rational and warranted. something form the limited reading of palntinga i have seen is not properly investigated much liek the concept of natural evil.


    again i repeating myself, my englsih is bad but nto that bad, i nevr said gods do nto exist i am simply doubting that a propasition of this sort is clearly evident, rational nor warranted.


    I'm not talking about existence of god and not that all people have to believe that god exists, but merely that my belief in god is warranted. That is, it comes from a properly functioning noetic structure. Most people, in most societies for almost all of history, have had a sense of god. I think it's quite natural. The opposite seems to be the exception.

    Rob
     
  10. rennavate

    rennavate Senior member

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    How exactly is your belief in god "warranted"? Because most people throughout history have believed in a god? They also believed the earth was flat until a few hundred years ago. A lot of people also thought white people were superior to black people. In fact, many still do. That's not a warranted belief.

    Noetic theory is also pretty ridiculous.
     
  11. scarphe

    scarphe Senior member

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    I'm not talking about existence of god and not that all people have to believe that god exists, but merely that my belief in god is warranted. That is, it comes from a properly functioning noetic structure. Most people, in most societies for almost all of history, have had a sense of god. I think it's quite natural. The opposite seems to be the exception.

    Rob


    now we are getting some meat a basic beliefe should nto depend upon society to be clearly evident rational or warranted. it should be clear as the sun in platos allegory of the cave. the crux here is can you make the case that it has the 3 qualifiers naturally to savage, or does a"properly fucntioning" society make them apparently basic in the society, but for the sake of true epistemology not truly basic.
     
  12. Tck13

    Tck13 Senior member

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    And why is that? If I have the epistemic obligation to provide evidence for some proposition p, would not you have the same epistemic obligation to provide evidence for the proposition (not) p?
    No. I just have to disprove your evidence or find where it's faulty. You need to make the claim that god exists and prove it. Plus, if I have no belief in p, why would I set out to prove it doesn't exist? To use a very cliche example, if I don't believe in Leprechauns - why would I try to prove that they don't exist?
    Your last statement makes no sense at all.
    It makes complete sense. Atheists only exist because religious beliefs exist. Without religious beliefs or people trying to say that a god exists, there'd be nothing to disprove. See example above about Leprechauns.
     
  13. Nosu3

    Nosu3 Senior member

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    Everyone is an atheist until exposed to the idea of god. Some remain atheists, others will support the idea of god by claiming belief. The idea of god is a self defense mechanism that has been utilized by humans as a species which is why it's rooted deep in our history since our cognitive functioning became so complex. All other animals are atheists, so were our evolutionary ancestors. God didn't become an idea until the progression of human cognitive functioning, so we created it, it didn't create us.
     
  14. FUZZNUTS!

    FUZZNUTS! Member

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    All other animals are atheists, so were our evolutionary ancestors.

    Hey I'm not an atheist! I'm Cat-Lick!
     
  15. Caesar Augustus

    Caesar Augustus Senior member

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    Everyone knows the GODS are on Mt Olympus. Fuckin duh.
     
  16. rennavate

    rennavate Senior member

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    Everyone is an atheist until exposed to the idea of god. Some remain atheists, others will support the idea of god by claiming belief. The idea of god is a self defense mechanism that has been utilized by humans as a species which is why it's rooted deep in our history since our cognitive functioning became so complex. All other animals are atheists, so were our evolutionary ancestors. God didn't become an idea until the progression of human cognitive functioning, so we created it, it didn't create us.

    Mhm. It scares people to think that life is random and meaningless. It scares people that when they die, that's it "” you just cease to exist. Hence why they make up "God" and "heaven" and so on.
     
  17. TheDarkKnight

    TheDarkKnight Senior member

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    Basically science tells me aliens probably exist before God.

    Mhm. It scares people to think that life is random and meaningless. It scares people that when they die, that's it "” you just cease to exist. Hence why they make up "God" and "heaven" and so on.

    As a description of a "paternal God" then yes.

    But a god does not have to be in anyway shape or form involved with us now. I think the argument that 300 years ago we believed the world was flat, is also the argument why NOW we can't know a tiny fraction of what there is to know.

    People have only had science and technology for 70 years or so. I think at this juncture it is just as ignorant to rule out "a god" (whatever that means), than to deny evolution.

    Hence agnostic - open minded.
     
  18. jaypee

    jaypee Senior member

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    I was going to quote John Lennon lyrics from 'God', but I think the Butthole Surfers said it better

    God, Zeus, Allah, Buddha.
    Bob Dylan on a motor scooter.
    Allah, Buddha, God, Zeus.
    Gotta get me a red caboose.
    Buddha, God, Zeus, Allah.
    Mexico in a low Impala.
    Zeus, Allah, Buddha, God.
    Eco suda pinchay a nada.
    We love him.
    We love him.
    We love him.
    Zeus, Allah, Buddha, God.
    Eco suda la ching ga.
    God, Zeus, Allah, Buddha.
    Bob Dylan on a motor scooter.
    We love him.
    We love him.
     
  19. ANIKETOS

    ANIKETOS Senior member

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    I do...not in a human lord but a massive GOD who created everything according to laws.
     
  20. Wess

    Wess Well-Known Member

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    I think the argument that 300 years ago we believed the world was flat, is also the argument why NOW we can't know a tiny fraction of what there is to know.
    This is is quite ignorant. When we thought the world was flat, it was because of the same reasons we used to (some still do) believe in God. It's made up because we didn't actually try to find the answer. We just assumed the easiest thing we can think of. We now know better because we looked for the answer, through science. We can never prove there is no God, as you can not prove that something is not there. What you can do is look at the evidence. I think what the evidence says is clear.
    People have only had science and technology for 70 years or so. I think at this juncture it is just as ignorant to rule out "a god" (whatever that means), than to deny evolution. .
    WAT? We only have science for 70 years or so? Where the hell did you go to school? As far as I know the ancient greeks did NOT live 70 years ago.
     

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