Discussions about the fashion industry thread

[LA Guy]

I have watched the Real/Fake thread for a while and have come to the conclusion that I don't have any interest in the clothing that might be counterfeited.

I guess that makes me pretentious, but not ostentatious? Or maybe I'm just better than other people in a very humble way? Modest? I should probably work through this with some small-batch craft beer, a cheese board and some Bon Iver.

I think that counterfeit is very different than say, a lower priced alternative. Counterfeit is dishonest in a way that the other is not. No one thinks that they are getting a Patek when they by a simply dress watch in a calatrava case off some Kickstarter.

For any brand that could be counterfeited, I will always buy new, and from a trusted source. In clothing and accessories, it's from the brand itself (Hermes, Cartier, Good Art...) or from a good retailer (a registered retailer listed on the Visvim site, for example, or from Nike or a known Nike zero tier account holder).

 

[beargonefishing]

I think that counterfeit is very different than say, a lower priced alternative. Counterfeit is dishonest in a way that the other is not. No one thinks that they are getting a Patek when they by a simply dress watch in a calatrava case off some Kickstarter.

For any brand that could be counterfeited, I will always buy new, and from a trusted source. In clothing and accessories, it's from the brand itself (Hermes, Cartier, Good Art...) or from a good retailer (a registered retailer listed on the Visvim site, for example, or from Nike or a known Nike zero tier account holder).

I love Nike running shoes for running, but joined the Nike club and buy direct. So I guess I am basic!

 

[cb200]

Nike is ditching Amazon as a partner after a short engagement. Nike is continuing to push towards more and more DTC distribution and I can see AMZ not working for them as a channel.

 

[Racing Green]

Nike is ditching Amazon as a partner after a short engagement. Nike is continuing to push towards more and more DTC distribution and I can see AMZ not working for them as a channel.

Patagonia Fights Back Against Amazon & Resellers in New Lawsuit

Kimberly McHugh's grey market goods haven't gone unnoticed.

hypebeast.com

 

[bamgrinus]

Amazon has kind of created a monster with its third party sellers. All kinds of counterfeits out there. No respect for unauthorized reselling. I have zero confidence that, for example, fragrances I buy on Amazon will be real. The whole "third party sellers get zero vetting" thing probably makes them a lot of money but it's a terrible policy for both consumers and brands, IMO.

 

[smittycl]

Discussed in today's Wash Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/11/14/how-amazons-quest-more-cheaper-products-has-resulted-flea-market-fakes/

 

[bamgrinus]

Discussed in today's Wash Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/11/14/how-amazons-quest-more-cheaper-products-has-resulted-flea-market-fakes/

Good article. At the end of the day, an algorithm is never going to solve the counterfeit problem, nor is foisting it off onto brands. They're never going to be able to do **** unless they're vetting third party sellers to the point where if they catch them selling a fake and boot them off the marketplace, they're not able to change their name and be back on the marketplace in a week. And I doubt they can do that for 90+% of China-based sellers.

 

[smittycl]

Good article. At the end of the day, an algorithm is never going to solve the counterfeit problem, nor is foisting it off onto brands. They're never going to be able to do **** unless they're vetting third party sellers to the point where if they catch them selling a fake and boot them off the marketplace, they're not able to change their name and be back on the marketplace in a week. And I doubt they can do that for 90+% of China-based sellers.

I guess I don't feel sorry for folks that get scammed trying to buy luxury items super-cheap only to receive fakes. Kind of got what they deserved. I suspect it's only a matter of time before a kid dies from tainted baby food or someone dies from a fake supplement, though. then who is responsible? Amazon?

 

[bamgrinus]

I guess I don't feel sorry for folks that get scammed trying to buy luxury items only to receive fakes. Kind of got what they deserved. I suspect it's only a matter of time before a kid dies from tainted baby food or someone dies from a fake supplement, though. then who is responsible? Amazon?

Er, just because it's a luxury item doesn't mean someone deserves to ripped off, or that everyone buying it has tons of money to throw away. I'm guessing those too-good-to-be-true priced counterfeit items get a lot more aspirational buyers than people who could afford the legit one. Don't know why anyone would deserve getting ripped off for going to the world's largest online retailer and assuming that the stuff they sell is legit. Not sure I would ever think someone deserves to get ripped off unless they're buying something morally suspect to begin with.

 

[smittycl]

Er, just because it's a luxury item doesn't mean someone deserves to ripped off, or that everyone buying it has tons of money to throw away. I'm guessing those too-good-to-be-true priced counterfeit items get a lot more aspirational buyers than people who could afford the legit one. Don't know why anyone would deserve getting ripped off for going to the world's largest online retailer and assuming that the stuff they sell is legit. Not sure I would ever think someone deserves to get ripped off unless they're buying something morally suspect to begin with.

I was thinking more of the new Hermes-scarf-for-$25 kind of ripped off. Those buyers should know better. The article mentioned the guy that got the fake Tag Heuer. I would feel sorry for him.

Still, it can be a bit Darwinian. There are folks who fall for scams and folks who don't. If it seems even mildly suspicious then it's likely worth avoiding. A bit arrogant I guess...?

 

[dieworkwear]

Another thing that sucks about those kinds of market trends is that it just breeds and feeds into the growing cynicism in modern culture, which infects everything. People are cynical about corporations, businesses, government, universities, media, etc. Instead of making society as a whole better, that kind of cynicism just makes it harder to have effective institutions. It's also just terribly toxic.

People shouldn't need to be suspicious of buying things online, especially from established names.

 

[bamgrinus]

I mean, you're assuming that everybody is intimately familiar with the difference between a third party seller on Amazon and buying directly from Amazon. It only takes being very slightly out of step with the situation to not have your bullshit detector set off. Maybe someone doesn't know that third parties are often fly by night operations. Maybe they don't know how much these things cost. (you know how many times on reddit someone says "how do people afford to pay $100 for a shirt??" oh, my sweet summer child...) Maybe they just didn't notice that it was being sold by a third party. Scams look almost legit when viewed from the right angle, that's why scams work. And they also prey disproportionately on seniors and less well-educated folks.

 

[smittycl]

I agree that a company like Amazon should have a lock on what they are selling. They deserve to be sued for fraud if pirated items remain in their stores.

People shouldn't blindly trust sketchy sellers, though. I imagine everyone here knows enough about Amazon's business model to not completely trust 3rd party sellers.

 

[cb200]

I suspect it's only a matter of time before a kid dies from tainted baby food or someone dies from a fake supplement, though. then who is responsible? Amazon?

Yes, Amazon can be held accountable. Precedents are being set. http://business.cch.com/plsd/StateFarmFire&CasvAmazon7-23-19.pdf

 

[dieworkwear]

I've also been surprised by how many very, very smart people have emailed me asking if I think some obvious scam site is legit. Like the ones with loads of Barbour jackets or whatever. Or stock from Mr. Porter. But it's just some fishing site to get someone's information. It takes a bit of know-how in order to spot those things.

Even if Amazon cracks down, tons of big-name companies are now just acting as third-party platforms. Walmart's website, for example, is mostly filled with third-party sellers. And again, not surprisingly, lots of people assume the seller isn't a third party but Walmart itself. (Again, tons of people have emailed me saying "did you know Walmart now sells Cucinelli and Yeezys?"). It's not always obvious to someone that such-and-such purchase is not coming from an established name.