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Discussions about the fashion industry thread

Epaulet

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Big changes at HF were discussed here a few weeks ago. Wow, good for Rochester that the factory will stay open. Apparently 75% of their production is for Brooks Brothers, Tod Snyder, etc. anyway. I hope they succeed.

I noticed a while back their website started carrying more Made in Canada stuff as they are owned by the group that also owns Samuelsohn. Then the shop link was removed. Hoping Nordstrom keeps the Rochester factory busy and doesn't carry the Mexico stuff.

Zegna makes it's Z Zegna line in Mexico. Tailoring not comparable to their European factories but shirts and stuff are okay IMO.

More details here:


Thanks for posting this @smittycl ... I can speak to this in depth. I actually posted on Reddit about it a few days ago. Some users there were asking what "Rochester Tailored Clothing" is, so I broke it down.

With regards to your points:

1) They're making our clothing, Todd Snyder, J.Press, Ralph Lauren, the MiUSA portion of Brooks Brothers, and "Southwick" branded items for Japan. They do a lot of pieces for the government and the military as well.

2) I'd be surprised if they keep making Hickey branded items for Nordstrom, but anything labeled RTC is made at the exact same facility by the exact same operators as MiUSA Hickey Freeman. Hopefully Nordstrom just changes over to the RTC brand.

3) Pretty sure that the Z by Zegna factory in Mexico is the same one that will make Hickey Freeman going forward. It's decent. It's not on the level of RTC, but it's not priced at that level either.

And here's what I told everyone on Reddit....
------------------------------------------------------

We've been an account for RTC since 2020, and I'm one of their biggest wholesale clients.

We've produced around 800 individual custom garments with them (no small feat with the pandemic), and I've personally visited the factory three times.

Prior to 2020, I was a Southwick account for 10 years. I'm very familiar with the make and quality of both factories.

I'd be happy to answer any questions that I can. You post them or DM me. You can also ask through the chat function of our website (epauletbrand.com) as all the messages there come straight to me.

Here's a few points that I can make:

  1. RTC is made at the Hickey Freeman factory in Rochester. Their excellent staff is the same staff that made Hickey-branded garments, so nothing has really functionally changed. The IP of "Hickey Freeman" is out of their hands now and, I believe, will start to be produced in Central or South America soon. So purchasing an RTC-made garment is buying an authentic MiUSA piece that's a Hickey in every single way except the woven label.
  2. The craftspeople there are a wonderful and hardworking team. They come from a huge range of immigrant backgrounds, and they're excellent at their jobs. It's a solid middle class career. You can feel good about your dollars going to support this team.
  3. The quality of RTC is definitely superior to Southwick. Construction is cleaner, fits are better, and the button and trim options are more extensive. The fabric selection is much more limited, but we have a nice mixture of basics, luxury, and novelties. It's also possible to do CMT (cut, make, and trim) where the client supplies his own fabric.
  4. Full canvas is available on all sportcoats and it's beautifully executed. A nice upgrade from Southwick who only offered it on a few different models and complained like crazy every time I ordered it.
  5. We have most Southwick fits on file, and if you own a Southwick garment, then just a clear photo of the inside tag is enough for us to cross-reference it. I've made a ton of custom garments in classic Southwick patterns over these past few years. If you'd like a suit, sportcoat, or trouser in a Southwick shape, then drop me a line and I can set that up.
  6. Southwick overcoats are not possible at this time. We have a nice lineup of RTC overcoats though... and a few are fairly analogous to Southwick designs.
 

smittycl

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There are couple of members who know a fair bit about this I think. @Epaulet can probably give us some details as well a broader sketch of that manufacturing sector in the USA. From my understanding, this has been a long time coming.

Thanks for posting this @smittycl ... I can speak to this in depth. I actually posted on Reddit about it a few days ago. Some users there were asking what "Rochester Tailored Clothing" is, so I broke it down.

With regards to your points:

1) They're making our clothing, Todd Snyder, J.Press, Ralph Lauren, the MiUSA portion of Brooks Brothers, and "Southwick" branded items for Japan. They do a lot of pieces for the government and the military as well.

2) I'd be surprised if they keep making Hickey branded items for Nordstrom, but anything labeled RTC is made at the exact same facility by the exact same operators as MiUSA Hickey Freeman. Hopefully Nordstrom just changes over to the RTC brand.

3) Pretty sure that the Z by Zegna factory in Mexico is the same one that will make Hickey Freeman going forward. It's decent. It's not on the level of RTC, but it's not priced at that level either.

And here's what I told everyone on Reddit....
------------------------------------------------------

We've been an account for RTC since 2020, and I'm one of their biggest wholesale clients.

We've produced around 800 individual custom garments with them (no small feat with the pandemic), and I've personally visited the factory three times.

Prior to 2020, I was a Southwick account for 10 years. I'm very familiar with the make and quality of both factories.

I'd be happy to answer any questions that I can. You post them or DM me. You can also ask through the chat function of our website (epauletbrand.com) as all the messages there come straight to me.

Here's a few points that I can make:

  1. RTC is made at the Hickey Freeman factory in Rochester. Their excellent staff is the same staff that made Hickey-branded garments, so nothing has really functionally changed. The IP of "Hickey Freeman" is out of their hands now and, I believe, will start to be produced in Central or South America soon. So purchasing an RTC-made garment is buying an authentic MiUSA piece that's a Hickey in every single way except the woven label.
  2. The craftspeople there are a wonderful and hardworking team. They come from a huge range of immigrant backgrounds, and they're excellent at their jobs. It's a solid middle class career. You can feel good about your dollars going to support this team.
  3. The quality of RTC is definitely superior to Southwick. Construction is cleaner, fits are better, and the button and trim options are more extensive. The fabric selection is much more limited, but we have a nice mixture of basics, luxury, and novelties. It's also possible to do CMT (cut, make, and trim) where the client supplies his own fabric.
  4. Full canvas is available on all sportcoats and it's beautifully executed. A nice upgrade from Southwick who only offered it on a few different models and complained like crazy every time I ordered it.
  5. We have most Southwick fits on file, and if you own a Southwick garment, then just a clear photo of the inside tag is enough for us to cross-reference it. I've made a ton of custom garments in classic Southwick patterns over these past few years. If you'd like a suit, sportcoat, or trouser in a Southwick shape, then drop me a line and I can set that up.
  6. Southwick overcoats are not possible at this time. We have a nice lineup of RTC overcoats though... and a few are fairly analogous to Southwick designs.
That was great, thanks. Arrived in DC in 2007 and finally had to dress like an adult. A couple Jos. A. Banks suits to get started, then BB, noticed HF was much better and bought several but then launched Italian as soon as I could afford it (turns out I'm really a 41/35 so the Italian 52 stuff fit perfectly). My newly-minted Lawyer son has all my HF now.

Anyway, the Rochester folks make great stuff so I'm rooting for them to succeed!
 

KaleidoscopicK

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The part about the customer in CA is infuriating, and I don't even work in retail.

Greg's experience with that customer was indeed upsetting to read, especially since as a Canadian I try my damned hardest to make conscious purchases from NMWA and any other US store (clothing or otherwise) I happen to purchase from. Unlike most people these days, I've always found shipping a return to be a hassle (whether free returns are offered or not, and in my case it's rarely offered) so I try to avoid it as best I can.
 

hpreston

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Thanks for posting this @smittycl ... I can speak to this in depth. I actually posted on Reddit about it a few days ago. Some users there were asking what "Rochester Tailored Clothing" is, so I broke it down.

With regards to your points:

1) They're making our clothing, Todd Snyder, J.Press, Ralph Lauren, the MiUSA portion of Brooks Brothers, and "Southwick" branded items for Japan. They do a lot of pieces for the government and the military as well.

2) I'd be surprised if they keep making Hickey branded items for Nordstrom, but anything labeled RTC is made at the exact same facility by the exact same operators as MiUSA Hickey Freeman. Hopefully Nordstrom just changes over to the RTC brand.

3) Pretty sure that the Z by Zegna factory in Mexico is the same one that will make Hickey Freeman going forward. It's decent. It's not on the level of RTC, but it's not priced at that level either.

And here's what I told everyone on Reddit....
------------------------------------------------------

We've been an account for RTC since 2020, and I'm one of their biggest wholesale clients.

We've produced around 800 individual custom garments with them (no small feat with the pandemic), and I've personally visited the factory three times.

Prior to 2020, I was a Southwick account for 10 years. I'm very familiar with the make and quality of both factories.

I'd be happy to answer any questions that I can. You post them or DM me. You can also ask through the chat function of our website (epauletbrand.com) as all the messages there come straight to me.

Here's a few points that I can make:

  1. RTC is made at the Hickey Freeman factory in Rochester. Their excellent staff is the same staff that made Hickey-branded garments, so nothing has really functionally changed. The IP of "Hickey Freeman" is out of their hands now and, I believe, will start to be produced in Central or South America soon. So purchasing an RTC-made garment is buying an authentic MiUSA piece that's a Hickey in every single way except the woven label.
  2. The craftspeople there are a wonderful and hardworking team. They come from a huge range of immigrant backgrounds, and they're excellent at their jobs. It's a solid middle class career. You can feel good about your dollars going to support this team.
  3. The quality of RTC is definitely superior to Southwick. Construction is cleaner, fits are better, and the button and trim options are more extensive. The fabric selection is much more limited, but we have a nice mixture of basics, luxury, and novelties. It's also possible to do CMT (cut, make, and trim) where the client supplies his own fabric.
  4. Full canvas is available on all sportcoats and it's beautifully executed. A nice upgrade from Southwick who only offered it on a few different models and complained like crazy every time I ordered it.
  5. We have most Southwick fits on file, and if you own a Southwick garment, then just a clear photo of the inside tag is enough for us to cross-reference it. I've made a ton of custom garments in classic Southwick patterns over these past few years. If you'd like a suit, sportcoat, or trouser in a Southwick shape, then drop me a line and I can set that up.
  6. Southwick overcoats are not possible at this time. We have a nice lineup of RTC overcoats though... and a few are fairly analogous to Southwick designs.
Echoing Smitty. Thanks for more details.

I guess I can look at this with a note of positivity. So while the HF name/IP seems to be changing with the times, I’m happy full canvas tailoring is still being made in the US, even if the name is different.

I’ve got a few pieces of HF tailoring and the finishing is very nice. I look forward to RTC continuing the tradition.
 

smittycl

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LA Guy

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This is about right, I think. Irl, this has been the norm for as long as I can remember. My mother used to buy tons at ridiculous discounts, and make us sift through for stuff we wanted. The rest would be farmed off to me cousins. I think that we got their stuff in return.
 

cb200

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Good article from BBS (puts on his swaged out journalist bucket hat for this one) on the impact of SSense on the market. Touches on a couple things I've seen and the challenge of balancing small and large accounts on the brand side.
 

KeeperEUSC

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Good article from BBS (puts on his swaged out journalist bucket hat for this one) on the impact of SSense on the market. Touches on a couple things I've seen and the challenge of balancing small and large accounts on the brand side.
Need someone to spill ssenses #'s some day, so much of it doesn't make sense to me. The level of discounting is consistently so steep that the only way their profitability claims could really be believed is if they are exerting obscene pricing pressure on brands... which felt like the one thing not really present in the BBS story!
 

LA Guy

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Good article from BBS (puts on his swaged out journalist bucket hat for this one) on the impact of SSense on the market. Touches on a couple things I've seen and the challenge of balancing small and large accounts on the brand side.
This part spoke to me:
"Buying budgets tend to be heavily “based on previous seasons’ sales data,” a different ex-Ssense staffer told me, which could lead to missteps: “You had one season where the Balenciaga Triple S sold out immediately, so they increased the budget for Triple S’s like 4000% or some crazy number like that for the next season. Buyers were saying, ‘You’re going to be stuck with thousands of unsold pairs’ — and that’s what happened.”

Every half decent data scientist knows that the sophisticated software that companies use to inform say, marketing choices, MMMs (Marketing Media Mix) programs, are based on some pretty flimsy math, and highly non-predictive (my wife had a conversation with the head of data science at a global brand with an absurd market cap (orders of magnitude higher than SSENSE) about just this recently, and the gist of the conversation was "halp, we need smart people to think of alternatives). The problem is that there are not a very large number of very good, or even half, decent, data scientists. A lot of data analysts are not well qualified for their roles, and they are data scientists in the same way that a bank teller is technically a banker. But they think that no one in the company knows better (Dunning Kruger effect) and so this garbage happens on a regular basis.
 

Fuuma

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Isn't the slur word used "data analyst"? Now the problom might be more constitutive than that: past data models might not have a strong fashion predictive capability no matter who builds them. Maybe at best it can be an ok tool as part of a much larger toolkit.
 

KeeperEUSC

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This part spoke to me:
"Buying budgets tend to be heavily “based on previous seasons’ sales data,” a different ex-Ssense staffer told me, which could lead to missteps: “You had one season where the Balenciaga Triple S sold out immediately, so they increased the budget for Triple S’s like 4000% or some crazy number like that for the next season. Buyers were saying, ‘You’re going to be stuck with thousands of unsold pairs’ — and that’s what happened.”

Every half decent data scientist knows that the sophisticated software that companies use to inform say, marketing choices, MMMs (Marketing Media Mix) programs, are based on some pretty flimsy math, and highly non-predictive (my wife had a conversation with the head of data science at a global brand with an absurd market cap (orders of magnitude higher than SSENSE) about just this recently, and the gist of the conversation was "halp, we need smart people to think of alternatives). The problem is that there are not a very large number of very good, or even half, decent, data scientists. A lot of data analysts are not well qualified for their roles, and they are data scientists in the same way that a bank teller is technically a banker. But they think that no one in the company knows better (Dunning Kruger effect) and so this garbage happens on a regular basis.
In my ~decade of working in/around commerce start-ups, I struggle to think of single data science team that was really moving the needle for their business, but plenty that needed to exist to justify the tech multiple.

Sympathetic to @Fuuma 's point here - if anything, the most common planning disasters I've seen are where someone takes a flimsy-but-inoffensive model, tie wraps it to an obscene YoY growth projection, and places a PO w/o ever encountering the fact that they're now ordering more units of something than there could ever possibly move. But when everyone's wanting to see a big number, and people are playing cashflow games with inventory revolvers...
 

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