Discussions about the fashion industry thread

[King Calder]

Honestly I'd just listen to or read basically anything Antonio has to say about the economics/production of fashion.

 

[clee1982]

though I would think most guys buy Incotex/PT01 baby them more by sending them to dry cleaners, it's the JCrew/RL stuff that take the abuse...

 

[IJReilly]

I have four pairs of incotex, all in cotton. Two (moleskin and some tough canvas-like cotton material) have been incredible. I’ve worn them lots over a decade, always machine washed and they still look great. One pair really didn’t wash well and discolored unevenly in an unattractive way. My fourth pair is really nice but has gotten to slim over the thigh.

Construction wise I don’t really see how they are superior to my chinos from Arket (which cost a fourth or so, although hard to compare prices from 2010 with 2020), aside from a few details which I don’t care about.

 

[cb200]

But it’s not imaginary.

My position is that if the item isn't for sale at some retailer at that price being used for comparison - then it is a fabricated/imaginary comparison. The higher price doesn't point towards a verifiable fact in the world. It is used to frame the price being asked for as having a relative value based on a theoretical situation. It is a useful marketing trick to frame price and value by a comparison to a fiction.

Discount and promotional advertising can get brands into trouble.

eCFR :: 16 CFR Part 233 -- Guides Against Deceptive Pricing

www.ecfr.gov

 

[clee1982]

I have four pairs of incotex, all in cotton. Two (moleskin and some tough canvas-like cotton material) have been incredible. I’ve worn them lots over a decade, always machine washed and they still look great. One pair really didn’t wash well and discolored unevenly in an unattractive way. My fourth pair is really nice but has gotten to slim over the thigh.

Construction wise I don’t really see how they are superior to my chinos from Arket (which cost a fourth or so, although hard to compare prices from 2010 with 2020), aside from a few details which I don’t care about.

I worn my navy cotton incotex to the ground (or more like completely frayed hem). No hard feeling because it was like $35 from Target...

now a day if fit is right I don’t really cars that much about construction on parts I can’t tell...

 

[NickPollica]

though I would think most guys buy Incotex/PT01 baby them more by sending them to dry cleaners, it's the JCrew/RL stuff that take the abuse...

ok now I must hear your take on Incotex.

My understanding from talking to more than a few people close to the production of Incotex, PT01 and Jacob Cohen is that little to none of their production is actually done in Italy. They fall into those gray area two step “made in italy” brands where the product is made elsewhere (with pants it’s usually bulgaria and romania), shipped to italy where the final two steps including attaching the main label allow the product to be deemed as made in Italy. Secondly, I’ve never seen a pair of Incotex pants that were demonstrably nicer than something similar from RL, particularly since Incotex is substantially more expensive. You could argue you like the fit better, and that justifies the premium, but certainly not the quality of make or textile choice.

 

[clee1982]

I'm very happy with my RL pants I have to say, and as most main stream had "slim down" (sometimes if not too much...), I don't really need to get Incotex these days...

edit: and Incotex pricing is stupid these days...

 

[jalebi]

My understanding from talking to more than a few people close to the production of Incotex, PT01 and Jacob Cohen is that little to none of their production is actually done in Italy. They fall into those gray area two step “made in italy” brands where the product is made elsewhere (with pants it’s usually bulgaria and romania), shipped to italy where the final two steps including attaching the main label allow the product to be deemed as made in Italy. Secondly, I’ve never seen a pair of Incotex pants that were demonstrably nicer than something similar from RL, particularly since Incotex is substantially more expensive. You could argue you like the fit better, and that justifies the premium, but certainly not the quality of make or textile choice.

I imagine the two step production thing is probably similar for Zanella. From my Italian trousers I'd say Rota and Marco Pescarolo (any thoughts on them?) are a step above Zanella/Incotex/PT01.

 

[smittycl]

My understanding from talking to more than a few people close to the production of Incotex, PT01 and Jacob Cohen is that little to none of their production is actually done in Italy. They fall into those gray area two step “made in italy” brands where the product is made elsewhere (with pants it’s usually bulgaria and romania), shipped to italy where the final two steps including attaching the main label allow the product to be deemed as made in Italy. Secondly, I’ve never seen a pair of Incotex pants that were demonstrably nicer than something similar from RL, particularly since Incotex is substantially more expensive. You could argue you like the fit better, and that justifies the premium, but certainly not the quality of make or textile choice.

Where does Rota fit in the mix? They’ve become my new favorites. Fit and fabric are incredible.

 

[NickPollica]

Where does Rota fit in the mix? They’ve become my new favorites. Fit and fabric are incredible.

My understanding is that Rotas are cleaner, dry clean only trousers and really, really nice.

 

[clee1982]

I haven't been convinced I suppose. I like Rota, but I don't feel like paying $400+, then pay Sam another I don't know how much to slim the leg..., I suppose in that respect the all in price from Armoury is cheaper (but might be too slim, first world problem)...

 

[smittycl]

My understanding is that Rotas are cleaner, dry clean only trousers and really, really nice.

I don’t wash much myself and send all but my one pair of jeans to the cleaners. Rota rocks.

 

[clee1982]

Rota would rock more if they put zipper instead of button

 

[clee1982]

Actually I think the MJ ones might be between the Armoury and NMWA, might need to try that next

 

[GheeButtersnaps]

Actually I think the MJ ones might be between the Armoury and NMWA, might need to try that next

Couldn't you also go with Rota MTM via NMWA?

From my recollection, the price of MTM w/ NMWA was similar or perhaps a little more cost-efficient than the Armoury. This is obviously ignoring the fact that you may prefer the cut of Armoury to NMWA.