Discussions about the fashion industry thread

[clee1982]

I guess depends on how you read.

My read would be fast fashion consumer just doesn't have as much income and job security to start with. So when bad time hits, they cut fashion spending period, and if they're not buying mid to luxury to start with then they don't really cut those number as much.

The WFH with same pay crowd continue to buy (though less of it) mid-tier to luxury end.

edit: to be clear I have no prediction on what's going to come out of this though, i.e. more shift out fast fashion back to mid tier or continue to gut out mid tier until enough supply is cut industry wide

 

[ixk]

I think mid tier is going to keep suffering still regardless.

 

[dieworkwear]

I guess depends on how you read.

My read would be fast fashion consumer just doesn't have as much income and job security to start with. So when bad time hits, they cut fashion spending period, and if they're not buying mid to luxury to start with then they don't really cut those number as much.

I think this is a total myth. The fast-fashion consumer is largely a middle-class person who wants to keep up with trends.

There are some low-income people who shop at fast fashion brands, but they don't make up the bulk of their business. In very poor communities, I don't see people wearing Zara and H&M. Instead, I see the stuff in suburbs.

 

[clee1982]

Is that a myth, NYC lenses is skewed of course, but personal experience is as soon as someone into say $150k? (which is a lot white collar here) they buy less fast fashion, other than Uniqulo for basics.

I see a lot people in the ~$70k to $150k ish range would buy fast fashion (and remember ~$70k in NYC is first year salary, give take $10k, and it doesn't really get you far due to rent and tax).

I mean if I was still making $70k unless I'm clothing nerd I would be in fast fashion crowd, and if I could be on the chopping block any time (can WFH doesn't mean your company is doing fine and not planning to layoff people left and right) I would not be spending anything in fashion period (so my example not buying fast fashion).

 

[NickPollica]

Is that a myth, NYC lenses is skewed of course, but personal experience is as soon as someone into say $150k? (which is a lot white collar here) they buy less fast fashion, other than Uniqulo for basics.

I see a lot people in the ~$70k to $150k ish range would buy fast fashion (and remember ~$70k in NYC is first year salary, give take $10k, and it doesn't really get you far due to rent and tax).

I mean if I was still making $70k unless I'm clothing nerd I would be in fast fashion crowd, and if I could be on the chopping block any time (can WFH doesn't mean your company is doing fine and not planning to layoff people left and right) I would not be spending anything in fashion period (so my example not buying fast fashion).

If you think 70K is an entry level salary in NYC for the vast majority of jobs in NYC you are insane. More like 45-50.

 

[WhyUEarly]

Is that a myth, NYC lenses is skewed of course, but personal experience is as soon as someone into say $150k? (which is a lot white collar here) they buy less fast fashion, other than Uniqulo for basics.

I see a lot people in the ~$70k to $150k ish range would buy fast fashion (and remember ~$70k in NYC is first year salary, give take $10k, and it doesn't really get you far due to rent and tax).

I mean if I was still making $70k unless I'm clothing nerd I would be in fast fashion crowd, and if I could be on the chopping block any time (can WFH doesn't mean your company is doing fine and not planning to layoff people left and right) I would not be spending anything in fashion period (so my example not buying fast fashion).

I think your numbers are right for financial services job, but $70K is above average income for many places in the U.S. Like Antonio said, NYC kinda runs on cheap intern labor, so you'll be surprised how many sub $50K jobs there are. As far as I know, all the under age 35 women at my company all buy fast fashion of some sort, but I definitely notice the outright luxury brands (LV, Gucci) from the female VPs under 40. Hard to say for the men.

 

[Mariokartfever]

I work with all women making $150k+ and they all use the Zara near us regularly for "I need something for this evening" outfits.

It's kinda nuts. Not really the same for men, IME.

 

[dieworkwear]

I see a lot people in the ~$70k to $150k ish range would buy fast fashion (and remember ~$70k in NYC is first year salary, give take $10k, and it doesn't really get you far due to rent and tax).

I mean if I was still making $70k unless I'm clothing nerd I would be in fast fashion crowd, and if I could be on the chopping block any time (can WFH doesn't mean your company is doing fine and not planning to layoff people left and right) I would not be spending anything in fashion period (so my example not buying fast fashion).

Numbers aside, I was making a distinction between the two groups you laid out here:

My read would be fast fashion consumer just doesn't have as much income and job security to start with. So when bad time hits, they cut fashion spending period, and if they're not buying mid to luxury to start with then they don't really cut those number as much.

The WFH with same pay crowd continue to buy (though less of it) mid-tier to luxury end.

When I think of people who don't have much income or job security, I think of people who are food service workers, cashiers, hotel cleaners, care takers, etc.

Those people are not spending their money on fast fashion.

Someone making $50k in one sector is not necessarily comparable to someone else making $50k in another sector. It's not just income that distinguishes these two groups. When you say low income people buy fast fashion and "WFH people continue to buy mid-tier and luxury," I don't think that's true. Low-income people aren't even thinking about fast fashion; they don't care about it. There's a certain segment of the WFH crowd, however, that does buy fast fashion. They tend to be young professionals with white-collar jobs. These are not people who are working as line cooks or cashiers.

Just Google "Zara target market" or "H&M target market." These companies are chasing people that are defined as young, professional, middle-income earners. These are WFH types.

 

[OccultaVexillum]

I agree with DWW. I don’t think the fast fashion consumer is as much about income as it is people who simply aren’t that interested in clothing, regardless of socioeconomic status.
people that buy Zara are the same people that used to buy Old Navy

 

[clee1982]

I think we're talking pass each other though

1. NOT saying $70k +- $10k is US average (just look at US median house income), not saying it's even average for NYC, just your typical big 4/finance entry salary

2. these worker are NOT low income worker, they're I think what exactly fit your description of "decent middle class" that buys fast fashion, but the same time there job is not that secure (can WFH doesn't make your job safe is my point)

3. And I think it's these guys that are stop buying fast fashion ($70k to $150k) during this period

edit: and once you go much beyond $150k you start buying a lot less fast fashion was my observation

edit 2: I don't believe I said low income buys fast fashion, believe I said

"
My read would be fast fashion consumer just doesn't have as much income and job security to start with. So when bad time hits, they cut fashion spending period, and if they're not buying mid to luxury to start with then they don't really cut those number as much.
"

and these "income and job security" I'm referring to $70k to $150k...

 

[imatlas]

I work with all women making $150k+ and they all use the Zara near us regularly for "I need something for this evening" outfits.

It's kinda nuts. Not really the same for men, IME.

It makes much more sense for women’s fashion, considering the stigma against being seen wearing the same outfit more than once. If your wardrobe is designed to be disposable, why would you want to spend the money for durable goods?

 

[WhyUEarly]

I think we're talking pass each other though

1. NOT saying $70k +- $10k is US average (just look at US median house income), not saying it's even average for NYC, just your typical big 4/finance entry salary

2. these worker are NOT low income worker, they're I think what exactly fit your description of "decent middle class" that buys fast fashion, but the same time there job is not that secure (can WFH doesn't make your job safe is my point)

3. And I think it's these guys that are stop buying fast fashion ($70k to $150k) during this period

edit: and once you go much beyond $150k you start buying a lot less fast fashion was my observation

1 & 2. I think the key point is that $70K is more than decent middle class, outside of NYC and Bay Area. If you're not working in NYC office, doesn't first year TC1 or analyst earn lower salary?

3. I'm not sure it's a good idea to project based on NYC financial service workers, since I would think it's relatively narrow segment. My guess is that demographic is a better predictor of fast fashion purchasing than income.

 

[clee1982]

yea but it's my $70k is $45k in Atlanta, same idea

 

[clee1982]

point being your so called decent middle income class is not feeling that secure about future, they're just not buying fashion (and they use to buy a lot fast fashion), that's the big drop in fast fashion, they're not shifting to buying luxury, they're just not buying period.

The not as bad luxury number is from the even higher income bracket is my point not, and NOT from decent middle income shifting from fast fashion to luxury item

or rather that's my hypothesis

 

[sushijerk]

I work with all women making $150k+ and they all use the Zara near us regularly for "I need something for this evening" outfits.

It's kinda nuts. Not really the same for men, IME.

It's because pricing for "nice" womens clothing is so out of control I don't think even women making 150k can really regularly buy it unless they are enthusiasts and will skimp on dining/drinking to add to the clothing budget. My wife has a lot of coworkers in the 140k to 200k salary range and most of them will spend 6k on a chanel bag before even considering buying mid tier brands like club monaco at full retail.