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Discussions about the fashion industry thread

Epaulet

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winston86dit

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would think NB probably lawyered up on this?
The uppers are made and sewn in the US and the outsoles are made overseas (China or Vietnam). Not sure I agree this is full on deception, but maybe that's just because I know there are little to no manufacturers capable of doing the outsole molds used in footwear in the US. I do also still find it to be cool that they're even still doing as much US manufacturing as they are....

This story is pretty bonkers....

The Red-Pilling of Kitson
The boutique that defined early-aughts L.A. style has taken an … unexpected turn

https://www.thecut.com/2021/08/the-red-pilling-of-kitson-fraser-ross.html
This is so crazy. That guy has seriously lost his marbles.
 

clee1982

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I'm not the type of guy looking for morality purity but I can see if you're hard bent on "made in USA" means top to bottom then this doesn't fly kind of thing. I would imagine "value" can be attributed by "cost" then yea would imagine the mass production of sole isn't the cost part for whatever that 70% argument (which is not a legal requirement per article anyway), personally not bothered.
 

cb200

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The NB case for country of origin is kind of odd. It really is more of an advertising issue, I think, in terms of representing facts to the public that may not understand the scope of country of origin definitions in a now global supply chain.

I mean who out there in the general population would look at a made in USA label and wonder if that was yarn forward, based on substantial transformation of an HS chapter, or a 51%-70% direct raw materials and labor costs. I don't think the complexity of modern sourcing is an excuse for NB in this case if they are clearly outside the FTC rules as it should have more to do with informing the consumer vs playing cute with labeling the product.
 

Epaulet

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"the My Pillow Guy of LA fashion"....
LOL yeah, that's apt.

There's lots of retailers who can work a strong political stance into their messaging -- be it right or left wing. But this is just such an epic mismatch for the trite and mostly ridiculous stuff that they sell. Nothing about this guy's store has any substance at all, and I can't imagine that the people who enjoy his political posts are also buying a cashmere sweater that says "Born Again Christian Dior."

I mean, maybe one or two will. But constantly complaining on social media is a buzzkill and it's hard to sell insane rainbow sweatpants when you're a buzzkill.
 

BlakeRVA

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Can't wait for the $39.99 Geobaskets

On a serious note, Shein claims 32.2 active customers on $10B in revenue for 2020. Their average product price is $5.70.

That's over 1,000,000,000 units of clothes in a single year (1.7B units using the average / 54 units per customer).

I think intellectually I was aware fast fashion was moving massive amounts of product each year, but I never realized it was to this scale. It feels especially disheartening with the increased awareness around climate change, mindful consumerism, and general environmentalism.. that Millennials and Gen Z would be the primary drivers behind a company like Shein doubling from 2019 to 2020.

Anyways, anything else I write sounds super cynical, so I'm going to sleep on it. Curious to hear others thoughts / reactions.
 

cb200

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I think many people have the view of it's cheap / I'm saving money and have thrift as a virtue. Those views simply override concerns that a company might be doing something or contributing to a wrong. Given that enough people have accepted and supported the fast fashion brands these companies behaviours have not only been socially accepted but encouraged and incentivized by making it "OK". You'll see lots of self reported concern and a willingness to pay more for more ethical products - but it's only a small percentage of the population who are really willing to sacrifice - anything - for their principles as consumers. Businesses have run too long on "it's just business" and accepting that breaking laws, or ethical boundaries are just a risk/cost analysis.
 
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sftiger

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I think most people DGAF and will just buy the cheapest thing at pretty much every opportunity possible, clothing or otherwise.

Otherwise how do you explain Ryanair/Spirit, Shein, particleboard furniture like (much but not all of) Ikea, etc. People love to complain and virtue signal and whatever, but everything I've ever seen points to the fact that, in the B2C world at least, people just care about price.
 

Mariokartfever

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I think most people DGAF and will just buy the cheapest thing at pretty much every opportunity possible, clothing or otherwise.

Otherwise how do you explain Ryanair/Spirit, Shein, particleboard furniture like (much but not all of) Ikea, etc. People love to complain and virtue signal and whatever, but everything I've ever seen points to the fact that, in the B2C world at least, people just care about price.
Trends are overly consumerist, and as a result clothes are seen as largely dispoable.

We need a cultural elite that the hoi polloi can imitate. A fashion aristocracy who can keep trends from shifting every 5-7 years.

Spending 10x what we currently do on ethically made clothes would be an easier pill to swallow if it was seens as a 10-20 year investment.
 
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sftiger

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Trends are overly consumerist, and as a result clothes are seen as largely dispoable.

We need a cultural elite that the hoi polloi can imitate. A fashion aristocracy who can keep trends from shifting every 5-7 years.

Spending 10x what we currently do on ethically made clothes would be an easier pill to swallow if it was seens as a 10-20 year invesmtnet.
It seems like kids in middle/high school feel like they are under a ton of scrutiny to constantly be on top of the new trend, exacerbated by Instagram/TikTok/whatever comes next, and are actually emulating who they see as the "cultural elite" / fashion aristocracy i.e. the people attending the Met Gala i.e. celebrities who also don't (or don't appear to) wear clothing more than once. I'm not sure how we, or if we, can ever come back from this.
 
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ValidusLA

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It astounds me that people will shell out $1200 for a new iPhone every 18 months, but will bargain basement hunt for the bedframe and mattress they sleep on.

Claims have been made that the vast majority of consumers can't afford quality goods - clothing, furniture etc. I have a hard time buying much of it though when people are spending vast amounts quite often on new car leases, new electronics, etc, added with the increasing trend of eating out (pre-covid) which grew by about 25% proportionally in the decade before 2019.

People seem more than willing to spend on outward status signifiers (fashion clothing, cars, iphones, instagramable dining), while cheaping out on the things that stay more private (appliances, furniture, cooking a decent meal at home).
 

double00

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overproduction is a fairly common competitive strategy , excess capacity can depress price at will etc

(edit: speaking about fast fashion volume)
 
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jaaz16

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Relative price for a lot of those electronics has really plummeted though. Not saying new iphones every year aren't expensive from a levels perspective, but TVs, computers, etc are shockingly cheap from a relative perspective.
561e93eb9dd7cc22008c1d2e.png

And yeah in some ways it's discordant to spend a lot in one area but not another, but also: spending little in one area is in some ways precisely how someone paying >40% of income toward rent with college debt can afford to engage in other, costlier aspects of social life.
 

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