Discussions about the fashion industry thread

[smittycl]

That side of the forum is now just the most boring clothes possible paired with the most insane shoes possible.

I think you’re right, actually. There is a lot of repetitive whining and such. Maybe Summer is a wash for CM and the focus should be Fall? The pressure to get back to work will coincide with the start of school.

I’m cycling to work again and just leaving sport coats there. Seeing if I can get away from suits for the summer. Anyway, have a good San Fran weekend!

 

[Bromley]

The western shirt thread will get good once he orders one (fingers crossed for Charvet). The watch side story was fun, too. Summer is definitely a CM dead zone.

 

[Zamb]

It’s hard for me to speak on pop ups in general because we haven’t done many.
But we did pop ups in Toronto Canada 2 years ago for about 4 weeks and it was a smashing success.
It also taught us a lot about demographics and customer needs.

we have a fairly decent customer base in Toronto, but it was the older customers ( 40 to 60 years old) who spent the most money and were decisive in their choices and clothing selections than younger customers who wanted discounts, wanted to negotiate prices or couldn’t seem to make up their minds in buying an item even though they liked it, it fitted well and the claimed to want the item.

our Paris Market during fashion week also functioned as somewhat of an unofficial pop up. Where store owners, fellow designers and fans of brands would shop from us with the privilege of either getting good discounts or even wholesale prices.
Designers often brought extra stuff to sell cause they knew these people were coming and the last two days of market was generally reserved for that kind of selling.
I think the most important thing is to see pop ups more as marketing tools and to do a lot of prep work before showing up.

for example had it not been for Covid we had planned for a pop up in LA where we have a large assortment of customers. Proper promotion way in advance usually helps to bring some traffic.

for us it did make money..... but I can see a scenario where it doesn’t

 

[XWT]

we have a fairly decent customer base in Toronto, but it was the older customers ( 40 to 60 years old) who spent the most money snd were decisive in their choices and clothing selections than younger customers who wanted discounts, wanted to negotiate prices or couldn’t seem to make up their minds in buying an item even though they liked it, it fitted well and the claimed to want the item.

The Canadian economy is what it is. These younger people wanted your stuff, they just couldn’t afford it.

 

[Zamb]

The Canadian economy is what it is. These younger people wanted your stuff, they just couldn’t afford it.

I don’t think it is a matter of affordability.
while it’s true that older people generally have greater disposable income. I find that a lot of young people even when they have the money are trained to look for deals and to expect sales all the time.A quite unrealistic possibility.
But also, I was doing the Pop up with a customer who owns a salon in Toronto and some of the wealthiest people there are his clients.
One of the customers was David Thomson of Thomson-Reuters and his Partner who was head of a department at Sotheby’s....
Along with several NBA lawyers etc.
These were people for whom money wasn’t really an issue and he was calling them to come shop. That might have skewed the kind of success we had.....

 

[smittycl]

Another piece on workplace attire getting more casual due to the pandemic.

You’re Finally Going Back to the Office. What Are You Going to Wear?

The rules about what to wear to the office are gone. Now retailers, workers and employers are trying to figure out what will work in a world in which the traditional dress code might never come back.

www.wsj.com

 

[ThreadsofApollo]

Interesting conversations here in the last few days regarding popups. The more I am digesting this, I'm now thinking of pop-ups as an "event". I understand that they act like this already in some capacity but, for example, coming out with a new style that takes inspiration from a particular city you are in. Showcasing new products and pre-planning certain events or activities that would work on social media and increase engagement. Maybe even live streaming it. More akin to using it as a marketing tool than maybe being a temporary brick and motors. I wondering if there are good examples of brands doing this or thinking of them in this way.

 

[Zamb]

Interesting conversations here in the last few days regarding popups. The more I am digesting this, I'm now thinking of pop-ups as an "event". I understand that they act like this already in some capacity but, for example, coming out with a new style that takes inspiration from a particular city you are in. Showcasing new products and pre-planning certain events or activities that would work on social media and increase engagement. Maybe even live streaming it. More akin to using it as a marketing tool than maybe being a temporary brick and motors. I wondering if there are good examples of brands doing this or thinking of them in this way.

one if the issue us there is a whole lot of people vwho want to grow thier business, desperate for marketing and promotion of brands and products and instead of thinking things through and having a real strategy, they run into these things with a misguided approach. when they dont get the results they want, they are disappointed.
1, as I said, id only do a pop up in a city where I have a large enough cluient base that justufues it, like LA.
2. my cuatomers would have to know this at least a a month to six weeks in advance so they can plan and be avaiable to come
3. im also incentivizing them to bring freinds and people who would be interesed in what i a have to offer\
4. Chalk this up to advertizing, expanding the visibility of my work , because there is the possibility that it may not be profitable

 

[ThreadsofApollo]

That makes sense. It's definitely not an approach that should be done without thinking it through since, as far as marketing goes, creating a pop-up is quite an investment than, FB/Instagram ads for example. It's definitely more in line with brand awareness and a brand would have to do it when they are able to "invest" in such a thing without an immediate and tangible return.

I do feel like, though, for primarily e-commerce brands, it would be something that should be looked at seriously at a certain juncture of their growth. Of course, everything depends on execution but there are many creative ways that can make a brand stand out, in a good way, if done right.

 

[cyc wid it]

Pop-ups for us have always had a fairly deep negative ROI when measured as return from sales that happened directly at the event. Especially the ones that require travel, hotel stay, etc... It's almost impossible to measure the ROI including purchases that were seeded or triggered by the pop-up event (but not bought that day), and even harder to measure the branding effect or the goodwill it generates with customers.

One thing that is sure is that the number of people who show up at pop-up and trunk shows is a very small fraction of the number of people who request them or indicate they'll show up. It's almost embarrassing actually. "When are you coming to XXX ???" times 20 >> "here we are! we lugged a ton of boxes and rented a place and racks and a mirror, and we're ready yay" >> no show >> "sorry I had to [walk my dog / take a long shower / watch the game]. When are you coming back???? "

I appreciated your stop in San Francisco! I'm a smalltimer though.

 

[cb200]

More akin to using it as a marketing tool than maybe being a temporary brick and motors. I wondering if there are good examples of brands doing this or thinking of them in this way.

Once you start framing expectations outside of a mini B&M retail it's more open and could fall under the umbrella of "experiential marketing". Flipping the switch from retail to marketing opens up a lot of lanes. Athletic and athletic adjacent brands are top of mind for me with those. Tracksmith doing a popup cafe during the Boston marathon. Patagonia doing repair tours. Lululemon hosting popup exercise and other classes in store flipping the retail space into something else. Nike's old creative concepts for the Stadium pushed pop-up creative spaces and concepts.

 

[LA Guy]

I personally think that measuring the value of pop up stores in terms of traditional ROI in sales is probably not capturing the importance of what pop up shops, particularly for otherwise purely online retailers or brands. With the old B&M model, a brand can't ve forfotten as long as there is a physical presence. There are shops in NYC and LA whose names I regularly forget, but the moment i see them in person, it's like "oh right, that place. That was cool." and though I will likely interact with that brand mainly online, it will be a brand I am more likely to remember, period. There are great online reiailers who I never find again simply because my autofill does not find it.

It's not that the metrics to measure the influence of online marketing is particularly well understand either. So, one commonly used measure for display ads is CTA. However, I rarely click through a banner. That doesn't mean that the banner has not worked. It simply means that I did not use that link. But having seen the product and banner on multiple sites and multiple platforms keep that retailer in my consciousness, even though I ultimately simply go to that site, and if I'm looking for some specific brand, it looks like a search for the brand through the store.The fractional CTA of acquring me is not at triviial to estimate.

Sorry for the ramble - super tired and it's my early evening witching hour. May edit for clarity and detial alter.

 

[clee1982]

that click example is definitely me for Yoox and NMWA, I don't usually click through those display ads, but I would randomly go to the website for sure because of those ads

 

[jah786]

Pop-ups for us have always had a fairly deep negative ROI when measured as return from sales that happened directly at the event. Especially the ones that require travel, hotel stay, etc... It's almost impossible to measure the ROI including purchases that were seeded or triggered by the pop-up event (but not bought that day), and even harder to measure the branding effect or the goodwill it generates with customers.

One thing that is sure is that the number of people who show up at pop-up and trunk shows is a very small fraction of the number of people who request them or indicate they'll show up. It's almost embarrassing actually. "When are you coming to XXX ???" times 20 >> "here we are! we lugged a ton of boxes and rented a place and racks and a mirror, and we're ready yay" >> no show >> "sorry I had to [walk my dog / take a long shower / watch the game]. When are you coming back???? "

I agree with all of this (and it made me laugh out loud) but with an *asterisk* (will get to that in a minute). I'm thinking back to all the pop-ups we did, we probably did 20 - 25 pop ups from 2014 to 2019. We did American Field, Northern Grade, PUF (once), and many more. I never had the $10k or more mythical explosion events that people speak of. The best we ever did was $6k at American Field in 2015 on a September weekend in Boston. The event was outside and it was really cold that weekend. People were freezing so they bought socks and thermals and hats, anything to keep warm. It never got that cold in Boston in September again, so we stopped going. Also, the more I paid for the event, the worse it performed. The only pop-ups now that we do that are worth it are sample sales at local stockists where we can sell off all the samples, overruns and weird **** that builds up (like 120 dz socks knit with reversed stripe colors). We do an event every year in Philly with the folks at Franklin & Poe that we have called "The Philly Special". We invite friends (brands and food vendors) and we don't charge them. It's one day, it's fun, and a neighborhood crowd comes out.

now for the *asterisk* - in the early days of building my brand, the pop-ups were valuable to see how customers interacted with the product as we have never had a store, but even more important, at the bigger markets, it was extremely valuable for B to B networking. We were able to connect with retail stores, other brands, and manufacturing partners by meeting them in person at pop-ups. But financially...most lost money, a couple broke even, and maybe two in 20 made a little bit. It will never be a viable strategy for actually creating positive cash flow.

also, some of my fav pop up moments:
Northern Grade NYC 2014, Dumbo Arts Fest, September. Held in the unfinished basement of Mac's apartment building. no Air Con. Sweaty and dirty and gross. You had to go down a weird stairway to get there. New Yorkers loved it. it seemed like an invite-only club. foot traffic was bonkers. but it was so ******* hot down there that it was hard to sell stuff.

Pop up Flea 2015, December. It was so hot in NYC that weekend, 70 deg, that they had to turn on the AC. In December. Does anyone want to buy a cashmere hat? Merry cluster ****.

Devin Horse Show 2018 - [I started attending big expensive events and they were awful]. Guy comes in to buy sunglasses so he can leer at the high school girls jumping horses. These are his daughter's friends and such. Gross and awful. He comes back and buys a second pair because his wife took the first pair. I **** you not.

 

[dieworkwear]

Held in the unfinished basement of Mac's apartment building. no Air Con. Sweaty and dirty and gross. You had to go down a weird stairway to get there. New Yorkers loved it. it seemed like an invite-only club. foot traffic was bonkers. but it was so ******* hot down there that it was hard to sell stuff.

Going to host a pop-up on the pretense of selling custom clothes, but make the environment so hot and uncomfortable, I'll actually make a killing selling water.