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Discussions about the fashion industry thread

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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I didn't say anything about low income countries not exporting anything to rich countries, but I also don't think that trade = growth.

as you said,


this growing gap seems to be related to trade?



In 2015, there was a net flow from South to North of:
-10.1 billion tons of raw materials (equivalent to the mass of 20 300 000 000 000 AOC sweatshirts)
-379 billion hours of human labour
-22.7 EJ of energy
-800 million hectares of land

this is consistent with a 25-year history of net flows of energy, labour, materials, and land use to high income countries.

high income countries (and China) have also had a trade surplus over the last 25 years

so the trade you're proposing would have to look different from the trade of the last 25 years if we expect low income countries to be able to catch up via trade
I don't think I've ever said that all countries that trade experience rapid growth? I do think that to grow as a low-income country, you need to trade, and specifically trade with rich countries.

Regarding the type of trade, I agree. As I mentioned, I've worked on developmental projects that try to get low-income countries to develop green service sectors.
 

zxcvbn

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i'm not arguing about whether or not international trade is necessary or avoidable, just about what its consequences have been.
But to get people out of poverty, you still mostly rely on trade
you didn't say that all countries that trade experience rapid growth, but you did say that trading is mostly responsible for 'lifting' LMIC out of poverty, which is what didn't make sense to me. i guess i just don't see how trade that has involved incomprehensible net flows of resources from south to north for 25 years has worked as an anti-poverty measure.
 

Sartorium

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‘Shark Tank’ star Kevin O’Leary says AOC’s ‘Tax The Rich’ sweatshirt proves this about socialists

It's amazing how clueless people are about the real costs of production in the USA.

foxnews.com/entertainment/shark-tank-star-kevin-oleary-says-aocs-tax-the-rich-sweatshirt-proves-this-about-socialists

"I paid $67.22 for this. I’m gonna guess she lands this basically for, I don’t know, six bucks? … and five bucks for shipping. That’s 85% gross margin – That’s spectacular!"

Regardless of what he thinks of the message, he's incredibly wrong about the costing here. It's even more hilarious that he's using the phrase "lands" for a domestically made garment.

Retail is $58.

Base cost of a quality USA-made sweatshirt is going to be at least $15. Probably more like $18 to $20.

It says that it's "union printed." Not sure what a premium that commands, but something like $5 printing cost per unit is realistic.

A sweatshirt weighs about two pounds. Hard to ship that for less than $7.50 to most locations unless you've got huge scale.

At the end of the day, I bet that the gross margin is closer to 50%.

This is a small point, but I'm consistently surprised when people think she's being greedy or somehow cleaning up with a $58 domestically made sweatshirt.
This guy is an assclown who flirted with importing the Trump model into Canada by briefly challenging for the leadership of our conservative party before realizing it wouldn't work here. I doubt he believes any of the things he's saying about the cost structure. It's marketing spin.
 
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Colrais

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i'm not arguing about whether or not international trade is necessary or avoidable, just about what its consequences have been.

you didn't say that all countries that trade experience rapid growth, but you did say that trading is mostly responsible for 'lifting' LMIC out of poverty, which is what didn't make sense to me. i guess i just don't see how trade that has involved incomprehensible net flows of resources from south to north for 25 years has worked as an anti-poverty measure.
Poor countries hitch into the global supply chain led by rich-world consumer demand in order to upskill their workers through foreign investment, industrial learning and, hopefully, technological transfer - along with wage increases over time (as the composition of relative unskilledness/opportunities available changes) and the general consumption ability of that labor force. Absent an already strong domestic consumer market (size matters!), you simply won't attract enough investment to get the engine going.

You raised the subject of Chinese export levels. China deliberately suppresses the consumptive ability (income levels) of the general populace in order to subsidise cost of capital for their industrial interests, who have gotten quite rich off western consumer markets. But they're increasingly finding urgent, at this point in their development, where their country is already saturated with

1) industrial technological upgrades
2) infrastructure upgrades

that that is a direction with diminishing returns (and dangerous to be so singularly exposed to western boom/bust cycles), such that it's critical to rebalance towards a stronger domestic consumer market if they're going to see meaningful economic growth in the coming decades.

Which is a hard task in itself, considering the entrenched domestic interests in play...
 
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nahneun

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Goku summoning a genki dama
 

peachfuzzmcgee

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The only way to end poverty in the middle east is to give them all the Gucci and give them a handful of Gamestop stocks.
 

gdl203

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Some may find this interesting:

I found this excerpt from the Rothman guy quite ambitious - but I think their business model is different in that they don't need to put their money where their mouth is (consignment model)
Tailored clothing is virtually non-existent. Except for an occasional wedding, the only reason a guy buys a suit is if he’s gained or lost weight. Our normal mix is 60 percent tailored clothing; for fall ‘20, our “buy” (or what we actually took in) was less than 5 percent. For fall ‘21, I’d expect us to get back to 50 percent as I predict a swing back to men dressing up.
 

cb200

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Some interesting comments in that link...

"But more than anything else, this pandemic has taught us who are friends are: on both the client side and the vendor side. In fact, I made a list of the 4 D’s we need from our vendors in these trying times: 1.) Decency: This means compassion and understanding, not calling us demanding immediate payments when you know we can’t pay right now…); 2.) Deliveries: Work with us so we’re not getting in everything at once at the wrong time; 3.) Discounts, especially on late shipments that we clearly can’t sell; and 4.) Depth of inventory: Now more than ever, we need our vendor partners to take some chances. I’m stunned by how many multi-billion dollar companies are not doing anything to help us."

It's tough to balance helping a retailer with a brands own needs and not everyone is going to be in a position to finance those things for a retailer. Cash flow needs and interest rates do not have any friends.
 

Fairy Tale Pink

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Looks like Kohl's will be dropping Chaps (Ralph Lauren's lower cost line) by the end of the year. While some stores and Kohls.com has received some Spring 2021 product, Kohl's will no longer carry the brand by the end of the year. This will leave Belk and Amazon as the two primary retailers for the Chaps brand.

Also, RL is moving Chaps back to a fully licensed-out model.
 

Nobilis Animus

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