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Discussions about the fashion industry thread

jah786

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If brands like Fear Of God stopped making thousands of pairs of $1100+ sweatpants every season, they might not need to discount them all to 70% off. (They don't have a fly -- not even a non-functional stitched fly, which I've seen on $19 mall-brand sweatpants.)



I remember Demna declaring at the beginning of Vetements that it never went on sale because it didn't need to. Within 4 years, Vetements clothing was routinely available at 70% off during end-of-season sales. Part of it was probably people getting sick of the Veblen business model, but I have no doubt that another important factor was that there was just too much Vetements clothing and it was priced astronomically (even leaving aside the fact that it was all pretty much grubby printed cotton basics).

Today, there is "too much" expensive clothing in every category.

The discussion about the seasonal schedule, the timing of sales, and the magnitude of discounts a few pages back was interesting, but it seems to have largely ignored this other factor.

Nobody actually needs a $900 dress shirt, let alone at a cost of $900, even if it's one of the rare items that seems to fully justify its price in materials and craftsmanship. And the number of $900+ shirts out there for sale at any given moment is absolutely staggering. (Most of them, needless to say, do not [seem to] fully justify their price; I will never forget a plain men's cotton button-up shirt by Marc Jacobs for $1,100, with no embroidery or details of any kind to explain the cost. The price was like a challenge to the consumer.)

Now repeat the same observation for every other category of menswear, and then repeat it again -- amplified tenfold -- for every category of women's clothing and accessories. Even if you erase all fast fashion from the marketplace, the sheer amount of clothing is numbing. Of course it's never all going to sell at MSRP.
I'm kinda bizarrely interested in the sweatpants that have the super long drawstrings that go down to your ankles. do you tie them around your waist? maybe a superlong drawstring that ties around your waist is more comfortable than a regular drawstring? is this design so absurd that it is actually amazing??!! Could be a steal at $461 (sale price)!

really doubt they make thousands of units per SKU. probably more like hundreds, maybe even as little as 60 to 120 per style/color. there are factories in LA that will do small runs. It seems the pricing of FoG is probably high enough at every level to support smaller runs.
 

bry2000

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King Calder

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Jeffery was a regular stop for me whenever I was in NYC, sucks to see them close.
 

Joytropics

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Just throwing media weight at something isn't the whole answer. Brand strategy, Audience and cultural insights, Media, messaging, product proposition, service, context, targeting, seasonality, distribution, etc have to all add up to drive a relevance point of view that people buy into. It ain't easy process man.
You're just describing effective media-buying. And I'm well aware of how difficult it is; it's my line of work. I just don't like when people try to mystify it.

Good marketing = more sales. Simple.

It's not easy, but it is simple.
 

cb200

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Good marketing = more sales. Simple.
I feel like marketing has had a slippery definition for a number of years and has been negotiating over scope of influence inside of busines. While it may be possible, in some circumstances, to say it's simple. With more inputs and areas of oversight and responsibility possible, that won't be simple problem or area to operate in by definition. Still, some do take that lack of clarity of scope in marketing as a feature and don't strive to make things more clear. I get the sentiment, but think that calling it simple undervalues and diminishes the scope of marketing as it can exist today.
 

jah786

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Looks like BB owned Southwick (suiting) and Garland (shirting) are closing, 450 jobs at Southwick and 150 at Garland. Totally Awful.
 

Gus

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Yeah, was a real pleasure to shop there.
Jeffery was a regular stop for me whenever I was in NYC, sucks to see them close.
When Jeffery opened in the very early days of the Meatpacking District, it had a mix of international fashion brands and some emerging brands that were "insiders who followed fashion" but the strength was that their selections were especially small and well curated. However, as time went on I thought it had turned into a small Barney's. I'm curious, what did you feel made Jeffery special in the last 5 years or so?
 

bry2000

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When Jeffery opened in the very early days of the Meatpacking District, it had a mix of international fashion brands and some emerging brands that were "insiders who followed fashion" but the strength was that their selections were especially small and well curated. However, as time went on I thought it had turned into a small Barney's. I'm curious, what did you feel made Jeffery special in the last 5 years or so?
As mentioned, I always felt they had very strong buys from the designers I cared about and bought from.

Their salespeople were extremely knowledgeable, proactive and helpful. Customer service was overall outstanding at every point of the shopping experience.

I never viewed them as a smaller version of Barneys, but a comparison to Barneys would have been the highest compliment a retailer could possibly receive. Jeffrey was a boutique that stocked interesting things, always had a point of view, and was a fun place to shop.
 
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London

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You're just describing effective media-buying. And I'm well aware of how difficult it is; it's my line of work. I just don't like when people try to mystify it.

Good marketing = more sales. Simple.

It's not easy, but it is simple.
I've worked at a media agency and many many ad agencies for many years. I do brand strategy for my own consultancy. What I described is not what media agencies do alone. It is what client side marketers, creative agencies, digital agencies, media agencies, influencers etc. do in conjunction together. It is a messy complex process and it is not easy. The best brands on the planet who I've worked with don't always get it right, and they have the best talent and massive marketing spend.
 
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gdl203

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It's incredibly incredibly difficult to acquire new customers online, profitably. It requires a ton of work, a ton of iterations, and some sort of magic glasses to be able to analyze results of campaigns across platforms and find the kernel of truth in the attribution metrics. It is neither easy or simple, it is difficult and very complex.

I have a simple goal: I'd like every guy who would likely like what we sell, to know that we exist and to get a look at what we do. The goal is simple, but it's surprisingly costly and complex to get there - and not spend all our gross margin on simply acquiring these new customers.
 

Joytropics

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I've worked at a media agency and many many ad agencies for many years. I do brand strategy for my own consultancy. What I described is not what media agencies do alone. It is what client side marketers, creative agencies, digital agencies, media agencies, influencers etc. do in conjunction together. It is a messy complex process and it is not easy. The best brands on the planet who I've worked with don't always get it right, and they have the best talent and massive marketing spend.
I'm sure we're talking past each other. I am actually interested in your perspective from the NYC mainstream side of things.

I've mainly done direct response. So my philosophy and background is a little different.

It's incredibly incredibly difficult to acquire new customers online, profitably. It requires a ton of work, a ton of iterations, and some sort of magic glasses to be able to analyze results of campaigns across platforms and find the kernel of truth in the attribution metrics. It is neither easy or simple, it is difficult and very complex.
I think we're using the word "simple" differently. I know customer acquisition is difficult.

Maybe a better way to say this is that while the tactics and day-to-day tasks can be complex and difficult, it's conceptually simple.

You need to pay less for a new customer than they will pay you over a reasonable timeframe.

The fact that achieving this goal involves product selection, product creation, testing different ad networks, creative, offer structures (not to mention balancing all that with your technical infrastructure, compliance concerns, payment processing etc) doesn't change the fact that the overall goal is simple.
 
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Joytropics

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I have a simple goal: I'd like every guy who would likely like what we sell, to know that we exist and to get a look at what we do. The goal is simple, but it's surprisingly costly and complex to get there - and not spend all our gross margin on simply acquiring these new customers.
I missed this part of the post, but I agree completely, and am in a similar boat.

And FWIW I really respect what you've done with No Man Walks Alone.
 

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