Discussions about the fashion industry thread

[Mulan]

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...e-where-louis-vuitton-makes-its-italian-shoes

 

[jah786]

via BoF, from Retail Dive. pretty blunt:
http://www.retaildive.com/news/how-...and-what-james-brett-needs-to-succeed/444914/

 

[King Calder]

Thought that this was an interesting perspective that relates to a lot of the recurring themes in this thread, regarding the Amazon/Whole Foods merger. As I find myself browsing East Dane and Shopbop increasingly often, you have to wonder about how Amazon is taking a bat to retail. I highly doubt that fashion is a super high priority for Amazon, especially with regards to its Whole Foods acquisiton, but nonetheless the WF locations would be prime locations to incorporate its growing presence in clothing:

"With the Whole Foods acquisition—and, to a lesser extent, its growing bookstore sideline—Amazon is changing the narrative that it and other tech companies have been selling for years. Tech companies have argued that the decimation of retail was an inevitable result of the digital revolution. It was the paradigm-altering innovation of companies like Amazon that was hollowing entire sectors of that economy. It was a “don’t hate the player, hate the game” argument—except they were telling people to love the game. The digital frontier was the future, and if that drove mom-and-pop stores and big-box giants out of business, well, that was the cost.

But Amazon’s acquisition of 400-plus stores of retail space suggests that it sees real value in brick-and-mortar. “You don’t spend $13 billion on physical stores because you believe that physical retail is over,” Lynn said. “What they’re proving by acquiring Whole Foods is that the collapse of retail that we’re seeing has nothing to do, or very little to do, with the technological revolution than it has to do with the abuse of power by a dominant retailer that intends to become much more dominant.”

Spoiler: Source

https://newrepublic.com/article/143376/amazon-changing-whole-concept-monopoly

 

[jah786]

http://www.thefashionlaw.com/home/true-religion-is-the-latest-apparel-brand-to-file-for-bankruptcy

not too many people on SF are going to mourn the loss of the local true religion store, but it's worth noting that yet another multi-million dollar brand from the 90s and the 00s is basically insolvent. the article says this:

"The denim retailer's financial struggles are due in part to consumer tastes shifting toward online shopping and away from the brick-and-mortar shops and department stores where the company's jeans have been primarily sold."

what i don't see is a very simple statement about style or value i.e. that true religion failed to move away from 90s embellished style fast enough or that it also failed to offer perceived quality (selvage or unique denim) or price value. Is it always the fault of online shopping and dept stores that your product is unappealing, lacks the perception of quality, and maybe be woefully overpriced?

How many more of these larger 90s and 00s brands are on the cusp of failing?

 

[cadmonkey]

http://www.thefashionlaw.com/home/true-religion-is-the-latest-apparel-brand-to-file-for-bankruptcy

not too many people on SF are going to mourn the loss of the local true religion store, but it's worth noting that yet another multi-million dollar brand from the 90s and the 00s is basically insolvent. the article says this:

"The denim retailer's financial struggles are due in part to consumer tastes shifting toward online shopping and away from the brick-and-mortar shops and department stores where the company's jeans have been primarily sold."

what i don't see is a very simple statement about style or value i.e. that true religion failed to move away from 90s embellished style fast enough or that it also failed to offer perceived quality (selvage or unique denim) or price value. Is it always the fault of online shopping and dept stores that your product is unappealing, lacks the perception of quality, and maybe be woefully overpriced?

How many more of these larger 90s and 00s brands are on the cusp of failing?

^^^ I actually have seen Made in USA redline selvedge TR at various thrift stores, so it's for sure not a matter of them not trying.

They, like everyone else are trying to compete against joggers/windbreakers/black drapey thing pants which is just out of their wheelhouse...

 

[LA Guy]

^^^ I actually have seen Made in USA redline selvedge TR at various thrift stores, so it's for sure not a matter of them not trying.

They, like everyone else are trying to compete against joggers/windbreakers/black drapey thing pants which is just out of their wheelhouse...

You can pivot, but it's not easy, and if you are playing catchup, you are already behind the eightball.

 

[NGOStudio]

moved

 

[Kallipagan]

Hi, I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were about the the Supreme x Louis Vuitton collaboration. Besides the ridiculous markup prices for resell, which can also be discussed in depth, what thoughts does anyone have about the implications this has for fashion and more broadly culture.

Granted this is not the first nor will it be the last time old fashion houses collaborate with streetwear (just look at Balenciaga and Alexander Wang for instance) but this is the most publicized collaboration in modern history (perhaps even the most important.)

While consumerist culture is not something new, the sheer level of hype around this collaboration is surely something other brands will take note of and incorporate into their sales strategies and as such will this mark the beginning of a new era in fashion where a well composed look is no longer the most important aspect of an outfit, but rather the amount of recognition one can receive for what they wear?

Obviously I have not fully fleshed out my thoughts, but I want to see what others have to say and use that as a platform for discussion.

 

[clee1982]

Well I haven't heard anything but then I'm mostly on CM side...

 

[dieworkwear]

Hi, I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were about the the Supreme x Louis Vuitton collaboration. Besides the ridiculous markup prices for resell, which can also be discussed in depth, what thoughts does anyone have about the implications this has for fashion and more broadly culture.

Granted this is not the first nor will it be the last time old fashion houses collaborate with streetwear (just look at Balenciaga and Alexander Wang for instance) but this is the most publicized collaboration in modern history (perhaps even the most important.)

While consumerist culture is not something new, the sheer level of hype around this collaboration is surely something other brands will take note of and incorporate into their sales strategies and as such will this mark the beginning of a new era in fashion where a well composed look is no longer the most important aspect of an outfit, but rather the amount of recognition one can receive for what they wear?

Obviously I have not fully fleshed out my thoughts, but I want to see what others have to say and use that as a platform for discussion.

Celine Dion was recently photographed in the PJs while riding through Paris. Kind of funny given that she was in Vetements last year.

I don't know. Big luxury brands want street cred, after having hating on streetwear through the '90s. And streetwear brands now get luxury validation. I feel like this means more for streetwear than luxury brands. The second will continue to operate as they do, but streetwear is no longer the kind of underground, street based, "guys silkscreening in their garage" anymore. It hasn't been for a long time, but this probably the zenith of the trajectory.

(Also, not sure either Alexander Wang or Balenciaga are streetwear, at least not in the same way as Supreme).

Regarding @jah786's comment above about True Religion, I think that kind of thinking is really needed when people report on this stuff. Everything now just fits into the same storyline -- internet is killing XYZ. Maybe this is a story about the internet, but when trying to explain anything, at minimum, you should test a few hypotheses, even if roughly. Even if the internet wasn't killing certain B&M stores, it's hard to imagine TR being around given how rooted they were in a certain aesthetic.

 

[clee1982]

TR was an easier case though as they were so single focused

 

[dieworkwear]

TR was an easier case though as they were so single focused

Sure, but I think that's @jah786's point. With which I agree. Maybe this is about the internet, but if so, it would be surprising. It just feels like there's a lot of fitting a trendy storyline today to anything that goes belly up. And the things that go belly up aren't always going belly up for the same reasons. There's the death of B&M, the death of certain brands, and the death of certain market segments. Those can (and probably are) running on different dynamics. Not everything is about the internet.

 

[Kallipagan]

Celine Dion was recently photographed in the PJs while riding through Paris. Kind of funny given that she was in Vetements last year.

I don't know. Big luxury brands want street cred, after having hating on streetwear through the '90s. And streetwear brands now get luxury validation. I feel like this means more for streetwear than luxury brands. The second will continue to operate as they do, but streetwear is no longer the kind of underground, street based, "guys silkscreening in their garage" anymore. It hasn't been for a long time, but this probably the zenith of the trajectory.

(Also, not sure either Alexander Wang or Balenciaga are streetwear, at least not in the same way as Supreme).

Regarding @jah786's comment above about True Religion, I think that kind of thinking is really needed when people report on this stuff. Everything now just fits into the same storyline -- internet is killing XYZ. Maybe this is a story about the internet, but when trying to explain anything, at minimum, you should test a few hypotheses, even if roughly. Even if the internet wasn't killing certain B&M stores, it's hard to imagine TR being around given how rooted they were in a certain aesthetic.

When I mention Alexander Wang at Balenciaga I meant more in the sense of bringing someone with a clearly defined history of streetwear in charge of an old fashion house, and how this will obviously change the direction of the company, but you are right in saying there is a gulf in class between Alexander Wang and Supreme, in that Alexander Wang can be considered 'high-end' streetwear while Supreme is more so 'low-end' streetwear.

If anything I think this just highlights the consumerist mentality of the day in that people are willing to just pay a lot for a name and while ,yes, this has always been the case, it's just now people are willing to pay exorbitant prices for previously mass produced brands, such as what Demna is currently doing with Balenciaga and their collabs (Levi's, Eastpak, Bebe, etc.)

Granted I'm still just starting to dip my toes into fashion but the way I see it is that fashion is on the decline as a sense of self expression and becoming a keep up with the times kind of thing.

Also the death of B&M that you mention is also a huge factor I've overlooked, but I think the internet, which is the underlying cause as you mentioned, is responsible for a majority of the over commercialization we see. I was thinking how there is no longer a 'look' for individual societies and everything is becoming very homogenized. What's trendy here is trendy in Asia or Australia, and I think its sad because there's no longer this sense of self expression and relatedness to one's culture that I feel fashion is an extension of.

 

[dieworkwear]

When I mention Alexander Wang at Balenciaga I meant more in the sense of bringing someone with a clearly defined history of streetwear in charge of an old fashion house, and how this will obviously change the direction of the company, but you are right in saying there is a gulf in class between Alexander Wang and Supreme, in that Alexander Wang can be considered 'high-end' streetwear while Supreme is more so 'low-end' streetwear.

If anything I think this just highlights the consumerist mentality of the day in that people are willing to just pay a lot for a name and while ,yes, this has always been the case, it's just now people are willing to pay exorbitant prices for previously mass produced brands, such as what Demna is currently doing with Balenciaga and their collabs (Levi's, Eastpak, Bebe, etc.)

Granted I'm still just starting to dip my toes into fashion but the way I see it is that fashion is on the decline as a sense of self expression and becoming a keep up with the times kind of thing.

Also the death of B&M that you mention is also a huge factor I've overlooked, but I think the internet, which is the underlying cause as you mentioned, is responsible for a majority of the over commercialization we see. I was thinking how there is no longer a 'look' for individual societies and everything is becoming very homogenized. What's trendy here is trendy in Asia or Australia, and I think its sad because there's no longer this sense of self expression and relatedness to one's culture that I feel fashion is an extension of.

To be honest, I don't think of Wang as streetwear at all. I think of him as a high-end designer.

This board breaks the term up to mean "anything that's not classic menswear," but that's obviously not a very good definition (even if it works for the purposes of a forum). In the fashion industry, it's sometimes used to mean "black designer," which is also dumb. And sometimes it's used as this super watered down term to mean a kind of aesthetic. So anything with sweatpants is streetwear, but ... that's also not very useful? I mean, Loro Piana also makes sweatpants, and they're not a streetwear company.

Anyway, maybe that's just a testament to how meaningless the category is nowadays. In the 90s, it had real defined parameters. Started off with printed t-shirts, then grew into cut-and-sewns. It was largely a street-based, underground movement, often connected to things like skating and hip hop. Now nobody can define it and the biggest brand is doing a collab with one of the oldest and most established fashion houses. Maybe it's dead as a term, but still used to just give certain brands an "edgy" feel.

I don't think any of those developments you mentioned are new though. Fashion has always been about consumerism. It's always been about both tribal identity and status signaling.

 

[ClambakeSkate]

Kim Jones was always kind-of a streetwear designer at heart. He always had that balance of raver/rapper/football hooligan oversized looks in his earlier collections.

He played it cool his first few years at LV until he could use LV's power to do the ridiculous **** with supreme that he'd probably dreamed up a long time ago. He doesn't great credit as a great designer because he's always been a bit under-the-radar but I think he is a good designer in the sense that he knows when and how to make a splash with something.

I'm not sure that LVxSupreme is helping or hurting their business (I'm guessing the hype will help them very very short-term but harm them in the end with luxury shoppers) but I imagine Kim Jones is quite pleased with himself currently and will continue to ride the wave until LV tells him to stop.