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Differences between English and Italian shirts

gregory

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uriahheep said: I don't buy British shirts because I don't like the placket fronts, which are not edge or 1/4"-stitched, but stitched just past the edges of the buttons, the collars, which are 1/4" stitched and generally too "bulky" for my taste, or the sloppy button attachments. Panzeraxe said: Maybe - but the collar and finishing on a H&K shirt is amazing This started to get me wondering: what are the defining features of an English shirt (H&K?) vs an Italian shirt (Borrelli?) vs a French shirt (Charvet)? For me, a H&K shirt will look quite different from a Zegna shirt. As I am quite interested in the little details that make up a shirt (how far the edges are from the edge, the collar style, etc), I hope that some members will spare some time to enlighten me.
 

uriahheep

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British non-fused collars 1/4"-stitched collars and cuffs placket front with stitching just past the edges of the buttons split yoke, cut on the bias and matched at an angle if striped rounded bottom hem with gussets sewn just above the points where the side seams and bottom hem meet machinesewn buttonholes, buttons attached by machine fairly thin 18L MOP buttons Italian fused collars edge-stitched or 1/4"-stitched collars and cuffs plain front or 1/4"-stitched placket front usually solid yoke usually rounded bottom hem with triangular gussets sewn in a manner such that the points where the side seams and bottom hem meet are concealed machinemade or handsewn buttonholes, buttons attached by machine or by hand usually thick 16L buttons French 1/4"-stitched collars and cuffs 1/4"-stitched placket front solid yoke straight bottom hem with side slits, no gussets machine buttonholes, buttons attached by machine fairly thin 18L MOP buttons with carved concentric circle patterns
 

Brian SD

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American Shirts:
"short sleeves" that extend down to your wrists, and shoulder seams that fall over your biceps.
the distinct smell of rotton cotton around the armpit area
8" collars with 4" tie space
looks like a tent when untucked

of course that is the slobbish majority, not the minority (of which we can all be quite certain there are some excellent contributers).
 

imageWIS

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Actually, the Zegna Napoli Couture or Napoli XXX or whatever they call the line now (damn it Zegna. just choose a name and stick with it.) uses Lorenzini-made shirts that utilize angled split-yokes. Granted, every other detail is very Italian oriented, but a split-yoke is a very English detail that is not often found on Italian made / label shirts.

Incidentally Lorenzini also manufactures the "˜Made in Italy' labeled RLPL dress shirts and they as well feature split-yokes.

Jon.
 

uriahheep

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That's true (re: Lorenzini and angled split yokes), but I was merely trying my best to sum up "quintessential" British, Italian and French styling. The British spread collar is also, not surprisingly, common among the Lorenzini-made RLPL shirts.
RLPL by Lorenzini is merely the Anglo-influenced styling of WASP-wannabe Ralph Lifshitz carried out by an Italian maker.
A few Italian shirtmakers use three-hole buttons since it has long been thought that the presence of these buttons is a sign of handwork. Previously these buttons had to be sewn on by hand. However, there are now machines capable of attaching three-hole buttons.
 

ernest

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English are good value for money.

Italian are robbery (have a look at Kiton prices for a cotton shirt.)
 

RJman

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Hmm... I haven't seen gussets on my Charvet shirts.

Point: I haven't seen a single British shirtmaker (RTW) match stripes or other patterns besides Hilditch and Key. Some might claim to do it, but I haven't seen it.
 

Manton

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You guyz got sumpin' against Uhmerika?
Do you think there is a characteristically American way to make a shirt, or a characteristically American style of shirt? Apart from the classic Brooks button down, I would be hard pressed to think of one. But I would be happy to be corrected.
 

Manton

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Another difference: Italian collars tend to be longer and have some roll. The front edges of English collars tend to be shorter and dead straight.
 

ernest

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Hmm... I haven't seen gussets on my Charvet shirts.  

Point: I haven't seen a single British shirtmaker (RTW) match stripes or other patterns besides Hilditch and Key.  Some might claim to do it, but I haven't seen it.
What do you call a gusset?
 

ernest

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French shirt
 

norcaltransplant

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One more addition...

Neopolitan shirtings:
1) Puckered sleeve head (though I have this feature on 2 Hugo Boss Baldessarini shirts that are made in Switzerland).
 

gregory

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Another difference: Italian collars tend to be longer and have some roll.  The front edges of English collars tend to be shorter and dead straight.
What exactly is meant by 'roll' here? Does it refer to the part where the collar flap is attached to the body of the shirt or the outer edge of the collar flap?
 

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