differences between charvet and sean o'flynn shirts

[lovelux2010]

hello..

can anyone explain to me the differences between a sean o'flynn shirt and a charvet shirt measured in paris? construction quality, materials, collars, etc..

basically, i'm in london (travel to paris regularly) and am finally moving away from OTR shirts, was considering going M2M at somewhere such as H&K (£150+ for m2m..but i figure i'm better off spending a bit extra and getting bespoke shirts.

i'm just going to start off with light blue, light pink, white and a light blue button down in casual fabric..i have an oval face and after classic looking collars that suit this face (i have to research this a bit more i think)

heres what i know so far..
sean o'flynn:
£160+ for shirts
nail down fit on sample shirt..then can choose more..

charvet
not sure about prices but have read $400+..
37 measurements taken
apparently fit great
best selection of fabrics (although not important to me i'm simple as far as fabric taste)

soo..
any more info on the above would be great, or opinoins in general. i do also like the look of italian shirts, naples one specifcally but i dont travel there much and i dont know if could nail down fit like i could in london or paris

finally, if there are any other london or parisian shirtmakers that are better than o'flynn or charvet (or not as good but cheaper).

 

[Macallan]

Bob at Dege & Skinner probably has similar prices to Sean

Oscar Udeshi on Davies Street, about £220 for MTM and £260 for bespoke - from what I understand, both MTM and bespoke are made to the standard; however, with the latter there is a trial shirt although there is an eight shirt minimum for bespoke (3/4 minimum for MTM).

A cheaper option would be Frank Foster (starting price below £150); however, the wait can be long and if cost is an important factor, you will have to weigh up the cost compared to how long you could wait.

 

[lovelux2010]

Originally Posted by Macallan

Bob at Dege & Skinner probably has similar prices to Sean

Oscar Udeshi on Davies Street, about £220 for MTM and £260 for bespoke - from what I understand, both MTM and bespoke are made to the standard; however, with the latter there is a trial shirt although there is an eight shirt minimum for bespoke (3/4 minimum for MTM).

A cheaper option would be Frank Foster (starting price below £150); however, the wait can be long and if cost is an important factor, you will have to weigh up the cost compared to how long you could wait.

hello..from hours of research i've narrowed it down to sean o'flynn and charvet..
i was really just wondering what makes charvet superior. everyone says charvet has a great fit, but surely an o'flynn shirt is going to have a great fit too..

so i'm wondering if its down to collars or construction, or if charvet will fit better?

 

[Oyaji]

Look for Courtot:
113 r Rennes 75006 Paris
01 45 48 54 86
From 160 euro without VAT, perfect fit but can take time.
In the same range, I have read multiple good feedbacks about Lucca around same price in Paris:
Lucca
58 bd des Batignolles Paris (17e)

 

[Concordia]

I have both shirts from Sean and demi-mesure from Charvet. Sean's are good, and are good value. More or less the usual run of cloth selection (which is fairly extensive), and very decent fit after one sample. Workmanship is pretty standard for London shirts. Of course, he also makes Huntsman's and New & Lingwood bespoke so there a lot of people wearing his work without knowing who he is. I don't know enough about shirts to say what makes Charvet's construction objectively different. But they are eye-poppingly beautiful, even in the wrapper. As far as cut goes, the collars are conspicuously elegant and the body is even more flattering than the normal London bespoke. Cloth selection is beyond fantastic-- they have a whole floor of stuff in the Paris shop that is probably exclusive to them. Much of it I've never seen in London, anyway. Service is very fine, if you tune your expectations. I send them an e-mail saying what I want (e.g., burgundy stripes on white, or linen/cotton in blue) and they send me an elegant little book of swatches. Maybe 8 or 10. I have no idea what they could have sent, but what they do is generally what I had wanted. I e-mail back the order and perfectly-fitting shirts arrive a month or so later. For me, anyway, Charvet fuses their collars and cuffs, so they are crisper-looking than the usual Jermyn Street style. I'd suggest trying Charvet once you get a fit nailed with Sean. Nothing wrong with having two shirtmakers. There will be times that you don't feel right sending a $400 shirt to the hotel laundry-- not that a $250 shirt is much less precious. And there may be a time when you need something relatively quickly but one shop is closed or backed up. Charvet's seamstresses get August off, for example. And as lovely as Charvet's shirts are, there are times when an English model just looks right. Oh, and I see that you're wanting a button-down collar. No idea which shop will do that better. In general, London shirtmakers screw it up. Thomas Pink of all places had a decent one at one time, but when I talked about the idea with one bespoke maker the conversation was a short one. "Well, sir, we want to make the collar a little more flexible than the standard so we only partially fuse the lining... [/inquiry]" No idea if Charvet has a better notion of how it's supposed to look.

 

[Kuro]

Originally Posted by Concordia

For me, anyway, Charvet fuses their collars and cuffs....

why did you ask for fuse collar/cuffs? thought they were opposed to that?

 

[Concordia]

Originally Posted by Kuro

why did you ask for fuse collar/cuffs? thought they were opposed to that?

I didn't ask. They might have asked me, but I can't remember with the jet lag. Anyway, they look super-- not at all the soft Jermyn Street style but not even slightly tacky in the High Street mode.

 

[lovelux2010]

Originally Posted by Concordia

I have both shirts from Sean and demi-mesure from Charvet.

Sean's are good, and are good value. More or less the usual run of cloth selection (which is fairly extensive), and very decent fit after one sample. Workmanship is pretty standard for London shirts. Of course, he also makes Huntsman's and New & Lingwood bespoke so there a lot of people wearing his work without knowing who he is.

I don't know enough about shirts to say what makes Charvet's construction objectively different. But they are eye-poppingly beautiful, even in the wrapper. As far as cut goes, the collars are conspicuously elegant and the body is even more flattering than the normal London bespoke. Cloth selection is beyond fantastic-- they have a whole floor of stuff in the Paris shop that is probably exclusive to them. Much of it I've never seen in London, anyway. Service is very fine, if you tune your expectations. I send them an e-mail saying what I want (e.g., burgundy stripes on white, or linen/cotton in blue) and they send me an elegant little book of swatches. Maybe 8 or 10. I have no idea what they could have sent, but what they do is generally what I had wanted. I e-mail back the order and perfectly-fitting shirts arrive a month or so later. For me, anyway, Charvet fuses their collars and cuffs, so they are crisper-looking than the usual Jermyn Street style.

I'd suggest trying Charvet once you get a fit nailed with Sean. Nothing wrong with having two shirtmakers. There will be times that you don't feel right sending a $400 shirt to the hotel laundry-- not that a $250 shirt is much less precious. And there may be a time when you need something relatively quickly but one shop is closed or backed up. Charvet's seamstresses get August off, for example. And as lovely as Charvet's shirts are, there are times when an English model just looks right.

Oh, and I see that you're wanting a button-down collar. No idea which shop will do that better. In general, London shirtmakers screw it up. Thomas Pink of all places had a decent one at one time, but when I talked about the idea with one bespoke maker the conversation was a short one. "Well, sir, we want to make the collar a little more flexible than the standard so we only partially fuse the lining... [/inquiry]" No idea if Charvet has a better notion of how it's supposed to look.


have you found any london shirtmakers superior to sean o'flynn? "good" does'nt sound appealing especially when paying $250+..i was hoping they would be excellent..

charvet sounds spectacular..

thanks for the tips on button downs..
i may just stick to wearing my uniqlo casual button downs for now..

 

[Concordia]

Originally Posted by lovelux2010

have you found any london shirtmakers superior to sean o'flynn? "good" does'nt sound appealing especially when paying $250+..i was hoping they would be excellent.. charvet sounds spectacular.. thanks for the tips on button downs.. i may just stick to wearing my uniqlo casual button downs for now..
Good is good. No complaints, and a lot of things to like. When the need strikes, I plan to order more and won't feel that I've settled for less. Tons better than any RTW I can think of that isn't Italian and priced to the sky. Stephen Lachter is also in that general bracket-- a slightly different approach to style perhaps but neither better nor worse in aggregate as far as I can tell. We'll see how things develop in the laundry. Best of all I've tried in London, and with the highest reputation among a lot of tailors on the Row is Bob Whittaker at Dege-- when he's organized enough to do his best work. More recently, his quality and service have been somewhat erratic. Which is why I shopped around at the above. For button-down shirts, I had been using Brooks Brothers (slim fit MTO off their website), and have more recently gone to Mercer (in Maine). I wouldn't wear either with a tie under a jacket, but the collars are exactly right. Mercer is especially good in construction quality/price, although you might want to specify a smaller body to go with the collar. I get what amounts to a 17.5" Long body with a larger collar-- still fits a bit like a tent but is oodles longer than the too-short Brooks RTW, and it saves something like 3 unnecessary inches on the chest.

 

[lovelux2010]

Originally Posted by Concordia

Good is good. No complaints, and a lot of things to like. When the need strikes, I plan to order more and won't feel that I've settled for less. Tons better than any RTW I can think of that isn't Italian and priced to the sky.

Stephen Lachter is also in that general bracket-- a slightly different approach to style perhaps but neither better nor worse in aggregate as far as I can tell. We'll see how things develop in the laundry.

Best of all I've tried in London, and with the highest reputation among a lot of tailors on the Row is Bob Whittaker at Dege-- when he's organized enough to do his best work. More recently, his quality and service have been somewhat erratic. Which is why I shopped around at the above.

For button-down shirts, I had been using Brooks Brothers (slim fit MTO off their website), and have more recently gone to Mercer (in Maine). I wouldn't wear either with a tie under a jacket, but the collars are exactly right. Mercer is especially good in construction quality/price, although you might want to specify a smaller body to go with the collar. I get what amounts to a 17.5" Long body with a larger collar-- still fits a bit like a tent but is oodles longer than the too-short Brooks RTW, and it saves something like 3 unnecessary inches on the chest.

great, thank you.

 

[alebrady]

Originally Posted by Concordia

Stephen Lachter is also in that general bracket-- a slightly different approach to style perhaps but neither better nor worse in aggregate as far as I can tell.

did you have any further thoughts on inherent differences in style between Stephen and Sean?

thanks!

 

[Concordia]

No-- the main difference that my non-professional eye can spot is in the collars.

Same request from each-- a "classic" Jermyn St collar, something like the standard H&K. Stephen gave me more spread and tie space, and Sean's is more conventional by American standards. But there's no reason that they wouldn't do differently for you if you asked. There are other differences but, again, nothing that couldn't be requested (or forbidden).

We'll see if I feel the same way after a year's washing, but they each seem to offer good value for roughly the same price.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Concordia

Best of all I've tried in London, and with the highest reputation among a lot of tailors on the Row is Bob Whittaker at Dege-- when he's organized enough to do his best work. More recently, his quality and service have been somewhat erratic. Which is why I shopped around at the above.

I have been delighted with Robert Whittaker at Dege...but I have not been in a rush. I can't imagine better skill and experience at cut and fit. One can, however, easily find RTW examples of better workmanship in construction, which in Dege's case is not in Charvet's class.

Of course, a Dege shirt is about half the price of Charvet and Whittaker visits major American cities (and Boston...

) personally to discuss what you want and to fit you. Charvet will do that too...if you fly them out at your expense...

- B

 

[alebrady]

that elegant collar might be worth it though

 

[GBer]

Originally Posted by lovelux2010

charvet
not sure about prices but have read $400+..
37 measurements taken
apparently fit great
best selection of fabrics (although not important to me i'm simple as far as fabric taste)


RTW can be over $400, not sure where bespoke starts...

If you are on a budget, don't forget there's a minimum number of shirts with many shirtmakers.