Diamond Engagement Ring

[darkshades]

Hey all. I've been looking around at engagement rings online and could use some input. I am starting to educate myself some more on diamonds and the four Cs. I feel like I have a decent grasp on them. However, I know if I went into a jewelry store today and asked to compare some diamonds, I would be completely lost and wouldn't even know what to look for or ask them about.

What is the most important thing to know about each of the four Cs? Is it typical to ask to see a GIA report for the diamond? If they don't have one and you're interested in that diamond, should you ask them to get one? Is GIA the best lab to go with? Hopefully some of you who have been down this road already can fill me in on all this. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mr Herbert]

Clarity and colour. two most important things.

diamonds are a complete scam but you can get a reasonable deal buying online from somewhere like diamondexchange

propose with the diamond and take her to the jeweller to get it made into a ring.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by Mr Herbert

Clarity and colour. two most important things.

I disagree--if anything, those two are often the most overemphasized. To the naked eye, a IF and VS2 stone won't look any different, yet the former costs a lot more than the latter. The same is true of D versus F or G coloring.

The main thing people under-emphasize is cut. You can reduce diamond shopping to a near science if you learn the ideal proportions for different shapes of stone. This is particularly true of round brilliants since they are the most ubiquitous and are shaped specifically to sparkle the most. Other stones, like Asschers and emerald cuts are not supposed to flash so much light and require somewhat more subjective judgment.

 

[Douglas]

Instead of buying a diamond, how about you go around killing little black children for a while? Now there's forever.

 

[VoraciousDrinker]

Originally Posted by Douglas

Instead of buying a diamond, how about you go around killing little black children for a while? Now there's forever.

This is how I proposed to my wife. Worked like a charm.

 

[rnoldh]

Originally Posted by Douglas

Instead of buying a diamond, how about you go around killing little black children for a while? Now there's forever.

Originally Posted by VoraciousDrinker

This is how I proposed to my wife. Worked like a charm.

Not funny!

Originally Posted by mafoofan

I disagree--if anything, those two are often the most overemphasized. To the naked eye, a IF and VS2 stone won't look any different, yet the former costs a lot more than the latter. The same is true of D versus F or G coloring.

The main thing people under-emphasize is cut. You can reduce diamond shopping to a near science if you learn the ideal proportions for different shapes of stone. This is particularly true of round brilliants since they are the most ubiquitous and are shaped specifically to sparkle the most. Other stones, like Asschers and emerald cuts are not supposed to flash so much light and require somewhat more subjective judgment.

I'd say you are right but you have to also remember the relative aspects of the 4 Cs to each other. For example if a stone is color L or M and/or clarity I-1, or I-2 ( let's say GIA certed to compare apples to apples ), then even a perfect cut will not save it from being a mediocre stone. Also some women prefer color ( go D-F ), some prefer clarity ( probably VS2 or better ) and some prefer fire and brilliance in which case the cut will be extremely important.

Foo, wouldn't you say that a round brilliant F, VS2 stone with "Good" cut is generally preferable to a J, I1 stone with absolutely perfect cut? Of course a lot is subjective, and it's important to learn the basics and get her what she wants. It's supposed to be for a long time

To the OP, there are many websites where you can learn about Diamonds, GIA.Org, Pricescope.com, and BlueNile.Com come to mind. I would advise you do some Googling and spend some time learning. In answer to your question, most first class retail operations will already have a GIA certification ( certainly the better ones in any town ), but the majority of retail jewelers will not be selling primarily GIA certed stones. Not many will get a GIA cert. after the fact, unless you pay for it and that would be doubtful anyway. Don't fall for stuff like "certified by a GIA gemologist" ( not the same as a GIA certification ), or an "appraisal" or another certification that the seller says is just as good as a GIA. It's very possible for a stone to be just as good as a GIA stone or exactly as advertised but you would have to be confident in your knowledge or have a gemologist who's opinion you trust, verify the specs. Again, use the web and gain some knowledge from the educational websites.

Having said all of that, remember that diamonds are generally a terrible investment ( if you look at it like an investment ). Right now it's definitely a buyer's market and you can do well when you are confident enough in your knowledge to purchase a stone online or from a wholesaler.

Here is a link to another good site DiamondRing.Com and their education tab.

 

[Mr Herbert]

yeh i was assuming the cut was within ideal portions.

 

[jgold47]

Originally Posted by Mr Herbert

yeh i was assuming the cut was within ideal portions.

Interesting, I just spent 30 at the jewler asking the same questions. What he told me was basically dont get the best, dont get the worst, and since its all about her, and no one walks around with a loupe or asks to see the GIA cert, dont focus so much on the specs. makes sense to me.

 

[darkshades]

Thanks for all the info and links. Sparkle is important, so I'll make sure whatever I get is as close to as ideal cut as i can afford. I'll definitely read more on all this, but you guys have already been really helpful.

So hypothetically speaking...I do all the research, step into a jewelery store, ask to look through a loupe at some diamonds...am i really going to be able to see the difference between a G and an I color? Between VSI and SI?

It just seems like a diamond certificate is the easiest way to compare apples to apples and make sure I'm getting a square deal. It sounds like GIA is the standard for diamond certification, so I'll look for places that provide their certs with the diamond.

You need a diamond cert to insure the ring too right?

 

[Master-Classter]

without having read all the responses... from what I know, there are a few tips: Size, going for just under 0.5 carat increments will save you money. Color and clarity, you can save a lot here. To the naked eye, you won't notice the difference so back down a notch or two from the best and save $ to spend on size. Cut is most important, but obviously within reason (you can't polish a turd) Check out BlueNile.com I believe they're one of the largest diamond retailers around. Lots of info/pictures. Also see education tab at top. Good luck

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by darkshades

Thanks for all the info and links. Sparkle is important, so I'll make sure whatever I get is as close to as ideal cut as i can afford. I'll definitely read more on all this, but you guys have already been really helpful. So hypothetically speaking...I do all the research, step into a jewelery store, ask to look through a loupe at some diamonds...am i really going to be able to see the difference between a G and an I color? Between VSI and SI? It just seems like a diamond certificate is the easiest way to compare apples to apples and make sure I'm getting a square deal. It sounds like GIA is the standard for diamond certification, so I'll look for places that provide their certs with the diamond. You need a diamond cert to insure the ring too right?
For most parameters, you should depend on the GIA certificate. Do not even try to judge on your own using a loupe. I would not buy a diamond that hasn't been certified by the American labs of the GIA or AGS. The truth is, 90% of your decision should be based on the numbers. For round brilliants, make than 100%. There's nothing mystical going on.

Originally Posted by Master-Classter

without having read all the responses... from what I know, there are a few tips: Size, going for just under 0.5 carot incriments will save you money. Color and clarity, you can save a lot here. To the naked eye, you won't notice the difference so back down a notch or two from the best and save $ to spend on size. Cut is most important, but obviously within reason Check out BlueNile.com I believe they're one of the largest diamond retailers around. Lots of info/pictures. Also see education tab at top. Good luck
There's never a reason to scrimp on cut. It makes or breaks a diamond and doesn't cost much to get the best off it. Most diamond buyers overlook it.

 

[the shah]

why not get a precious stone that's actually precious/rare ? like the polymorph of crystalline carbon found in a meteorite, harder than diamond http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35198934...ience-science/

 

[Gibonius]

If you're interested in how the stone looks and not just geeking out about how awesome it is on paper, spend your money on cut quality. Cut will determine how much light return you get and how much color separation occurs. It'll make the stone look bigger to boot. The difference is especially obvious in less than ideal lighting. Any stone looks good under the jeweler's lights, but take them into real world situations and not so much. Color is subjective, I'm happy with a H-I-J range stone. Some people like whiter stones, but even there spending money to get a D grade is kind of stupid. I saw a beautiful O color stone, but it wasn't really suitable for a solitaire ring (could see the yellow too much from the sides). Would have made an awesome pendant. Clarity, I can't find any reason to go better than eye clean. Actually look at the stone under magnification though, you can find some really nice SI2s but some are lousy. Generally stay away from I1 or lower stones, but some I1s are manageable if you're really penny-pinching. Going for IF is a total sucker move, even the VVS grades are overkill. VS1 and 2 aren't terrible for the money, but I'd rather put that money into getting a bigger stone and get an SI1 instead. Carat, well, get as big as you can while holding the other parameters reasonable. No one will ever complain about getting a bigger stone, but don't get a crappy quality one just to make it bigger. The price jumps tremendously at round numbers, so consider getting an 0.95 carat stone instead of 1.0 carats (etc), you'll save a lot of money. I ended up settling on an SI1, ideal cut, I color stone for my wife's engagement ring. It's awesome, far better looking than most of the stones I see. Got it from WhiteFlash, they specialize in excellent cut quality diamonds and the prices are quite good. I wasn't impressed by Blue Nile, some of the stones they rate as "excellent" cuts don't pan out when you run the numbers. Pricescope is a great resource too, as mentioned by others. No reason to be afraid of shopping online. The numbers are really the important part, and you get nice digitized zoomed in images many places. The good retailers will save you a ton of money, and many will actually ship the stone out to you if you set a deposit or they'll have a liberal return policy. As far as certification goes, the best stones are all going to be GIA or AGL certified. No one will bother cutting a really nice stone and then not get it certified with one of those two agencies. I'd say you can safely restrict your search within those confines.

 

[Gibonius]

Originally Posted by shahanshah

why not get a precious stone that's actually precious/rare ? like the polymorph of crystalline carbon found in a meteorite, harder than diamond

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35198934...ience-science/

I don't imagine you can find those available at a jewelry store, and even in a hypothetical sense, I don't think polycrystalline materials would be attractive enough to consider.

No doubt diamonds are overpriced, but people underestimate the cost of cutting the things well. Only certain types of gems can be cut with that level of precision, and diamonds have great optical qualities to boot. I appreciate a good sapphire tremendously, but it's a different experience from a very well cut diamond.

 

[the shah]

i guess so, but just knowing how plentiful they are devalues them in my mind. i'd rather go with a blood red ruby