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Demise of the 7-fold

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Felix Krull, Dec 21, 2008.

  1. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    Thanks for that- still lost on me but I see what you are saying. [​IMG]

    The two guys who wear unlined sevens most consistently are iammatt and mafoofan, since they wear a lot of the unlined Rubinacci sevens.

    - B
     


  2. Felix Krull

    Felix Krull Senior member

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    Yes, indeed, I do quite a few 7-fold unlined silk neckties from the house of Signor Paone. I am quite familiar with the lined 6-fold technique and while it is a perfectly respectable piece of neckwear, I hardly find it becoming of the 7-fold moniker.
     


  3. Cary Grant

    Cary Grant Senior member

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    Ah, the internet. Someday, I must look into it.

    Nonetheless, I am not in error.

    - B


    I assume, then, that it is Kiton itself who is in error (or being intentionally misleading by advertizing sevenfold ties?
     


  4. Cary Grant

    Cary Grant Senior member

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    Yes, indeed, I do quite a few 7-fold unlined silk neckties from the house of Signor Paone. I am quite familiar with the lined 6-fold technique and while it is a perfectly respectable piece of neckwear, I hardly find it becoming of the 7-fold moniker.

    May I ask, what was someone of your haute couture doing in Dillards to begin with? [​IMG]
     


  5. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    Yes, indeed, I do quite a few 7-fold unlined silk neckties from the house of Signor Paone. I am quite familiar with the lined 6-fold technique and while it is a perfectly respectable piece of neckwear, I hardly find it becoming of the 7-fold moniker.

    What makes you think that your Kitons are unlined sevens? I own a few Kiton myself, and have seen hundreds over the years, and none have been such a tie.

    I'm genuinely curious...do you have a photograph of the back that you can post?


    - B
     


  6. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    I assume, then, that it is Kiton itself who is in error (or being intentionally misleading by advertizing sevenfold ties?

    I've never seen them advertize their ties as sevens, have you? Their advertizing is basically lifestyle advertizing that gives no details of their product...e.g., the photo at the top here.

    What salesmen say in a store, well, that's another matter. Ignorance is rife.


    - B
     


  7. Cary Grant

    Cary Grant Senior member

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    I've never seen them advertize their ties as sevens, have you? Their advertizing is basically lifestyle advertizing that gives no details of their product...e.g., the photo at the top here.

    What salesmen say in a store, well, that's another matter. Ignorance is rife.


    - B


    I haven't witnessed it in person.

    I just did some quick trolling of the web and found many sights advertizing kiton sevenfolds.

    For example:

    http://www.tiedeals.com/KITON/kiton.htm

    http://www.thefind.com/apparel/browse-kiton-tie

    There are many others... mostly aggregators. WHich leads me to think that either 1) Kiton itself or 2) a distrbutor is billing them as sevenfold.
     


  8. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    I have a few unlined 7 folds from RLPL circa 2000 that are spectacular.

    Sweet. I have a couple of their more recent lined six folds that Marinella made for them.


    - B
     


  9. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    There are many others... mostly aggregators. WHich leads me to think that either 1) Kiton itself or 2) a distrbutor is billing them as sevenfold.


    As I mentioned earlier, the term seven fold is being used broadly today for any multi-fold tie. It's inaccurate, but it is so ubiquitous that it would be too severe to accuse any one maker of being deceptive.

    The fact of the matter is, however, that true sevens are still very rare.


    - B
     


  10. aportnoy

    aportnoy Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Sweet. I have a couple of their more recent lined six folds that Marinella made for them.


    - B


    Haven't sent those yet, I'll have to make some inquiries pronto!
     


  11. Felix Krull

    Felix Krull Senior member

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    What makes you think that your Kitons are unlined sevens? I own a few Kiton myself, and have seen hundreds over the years, and none have been such a tie.

    I'm genuinely curious...do you have a photograph of the back that you can post?


    - B


    Nothing makes me think, rather I know because I purchased them in Naples from a small establishment run by one of Signor Paone's original cutters. There is nothing on the tie that says seven-fold as tie-makers true to their craft do not "advertise" it. It is just the way hand-crafted ties are made. The ties do bear the Kiton label, however.

    I do regret if I have offended your authority in this arena. It certainly was not my intent.
     


  12. lee_44106

    lee_44106 Senior member

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    While I was meandering through Dillards, to my shock and dismay, I noticed that they are now selling 7-fold ties there under the Daniel Cremieux label. To add insult to injury, they had many of them marked down 50% off from the original $120 price point.

    One of the best kept secrets in all of men's fashion is now readily available to any college student willing to plunk down $60 for their big day at the career fair. I felt like I was going to be sick. Five years ago, the only two makers of 7-folds that were readily available were from Kiton or R. Talbott. Not anymore, now you can go to Dillards and get one!

    I take solace in the fact that they haven't yet besmirched the exclusivity of the 9-fold, of which I proudly own several from the Private Stock label. Alas, it is only a matter of time until that too can be found at K-Mart during their blue light special.


    My word, the nerves of Dillards, one of those cheap and ubiquitous mall department stores. Next thing you know, they are going to start cutting buttonholes into the sleeves of jackets.

    What is this world coming to when the well-off cannot enjoy something exclusive?
     


  13. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    True unlined seven-folds are pretty rare. I'm sure lots of different makers could make them, but I doubt many people would really like them. As B. implied, they do not keep their shapes as well and don't have the 'luxurious' body commonly associated with a nice tie. In fact, my Rubinacci seven-folds are tissue thin.

    Appearance-wise, there's not much of a difference except that unlined seven-folds are likely to have several mini-dimples when knotted, rather than one large dimple. Also, although I'm probably imagining it, they feel lighter and less obtrusive around my neck. In comparison, my lined six-folds from Marinella felt very substantial.

    For me, the appeal of an unlined seven-fold has more to do with owning a really beautifully crafted object that doubles as a nice tie. If I had to cut something from my clothing budget, they'd probably be one of the first things to go precisely because they are such a superfluous luxury.
     


  14. Will

    Will Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    What makes you think that your Kitons are unlined sevens? I own a few Kiton myself, and have seen hundreds over the years, and none have been such a tie.

    I'm genuinely curious...do you have a photograph of the back that you can post?


    - B


    I have some real unlined Kiton sevens but they stopped making them almost a decade ago.
     


  15. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    I have some real unlined Kiton sevens but they stopped making them almost a decade ago.

    Are they true seven-folds or unlined six-folds? I believe all the Rubinacci 'seven-folds' are really six-folds, as is typical with Italian makers.
     


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