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Death or This God-awful threak?

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by itsstillmatt, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. gomestar

    gomestar Super Yelper

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    worms are an important part of the eco system. They provide great nutrients to the soil and are a great benefit to many farmers.

    Unfortunately, taking the strawberry off of the vine makes me feel like I'm exploiting all of the hard work of the worm. This, to me, is of far more consideration than the exploited humans used to make my world-peace statement shirt.
     


  2. samus

    samus Senior member

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    Canine teeth... that's a pretty advanced argument right there

    The very first one is hilarious though.


    You laugh, but vegans have to deal with idiotic arguments like these on a daily basis. I feel bad for them.
     


  3. Piobaire

    Piobaire Not left of center?

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    Let's play a game!

    Samus, while I am not attacking vegans, I am interested to know if you feel any examination of the topic by an omnivore is "defensive"? Also, have to point out, vegans are omnivores too. Merely not eating meat does not change one's taxonomic classification.
     


  4. gdl203

    gdl203 Affiliate Vendor Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    You laugh, but vegans have to deal with idiotic arguments like these on a daily basis. I feel bad for them.

    You know what's funny? I have known tons of Indians (friends, colleagues, classmates) who were vegetarian and never ever heard them make a big deal out of it or complain of options at restaurants, etc... I've only seen this kind of behaviour with born-again veggies (and some kosher people, as noted earlier). Why do you think that is?

    Wait... was this on your bingo card?
     


  5. coonky

    coonky Well-Known Member

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    And about the baiting, I didn't think it would stir up such a response. I usually don't bring this stuff up in conversation, and when I do it's because I have to, i.e. I meet someone who mentions they're vegetarian/vegan. "Oh cool, I don't eat meat either." I don't get this much hate in conversation with meat eaters in person.

    As for why I started begin vegan? I had been thinking about it for some time, met soeone who was vegan, and then read up a little about it. I tried it out, and found it's not so hard.
     


  6. samus

    samus Senior member

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    Samus, while I am not attacking vegans, I am interested to know if you feel any examination of the topic by an omnivore is "defensive"? Also, have to point out, vegans are omnivores too. Merely not eating meat does not change one's taxonomic classification.

    [​IMG] Right. Because I was clearly speaking taxonomically and not merely using shorthand for non-vegetarian.

    It's this kind of nitpicky, juvenile nonsense that makes me bristle. As stated earlier I'm not a vegetarian, but I do respect the choices of others. I'd be interested to see a good-faith discussion about the issues of food ethics involved (that go beyond just not using animal products - we've had good threads about grass-fed beef, etc.).

    But all that's been presented here have been facetious arguments ("OMG what about the fieldmice?? Vegans are hypocrites") and strawmen ("What about the exploited humans?!"). If you're interested, maybe try again in a new thread without such blatant disdain.
     


  7. samus

    samus Senior member

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    You know what's funny? I have known tons of Indians (friends, colleagues, classmates) who were vegetarian and never ever heard them make a big deal out of it or complain of options at restaurants, etc... I've only seen this kind of behaviour with born-again veggies (and some kosher people, as noted earlier). Why do you think that is? Wait... was this on your bingo card?
    What do you expect anyone here to say? No, you've never been out with people who complain? All I know is, there are people of all stripes who are dicks at restaurants. I also have plenty of vegetarian and vegan friends with whom I dine out regularly without incident. On the other hand, voicing dietary restrictions in a reasonable manner (i.e., don't go to Fogo de Chao) does not a complainer make.
     


  8. gdl203

    gdl203 Affiliate Vendor Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    Fogo de Chao [​IMG]


    jk jk
     


  9. Piobaire

    Piobaire Not left of center?

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    [​IMG] Right. Because I was clearly speaking taxonomically and not merely using shorthand for non-vegetarian.

    It's this kind of nitpicky, juvenile nonsense that makes me bristle. As stated earlier I'm not a vegetarian, but I do respect the choices of others. I'd be interested to see a good-faith discussion about the issues of food ethics involved (that go beyond just not using animal products - we've had good threads about grass-fed beef, etc.).

    But all that's been presented here have been facetious arguments ("OMG what about the fieldmice?? Vegans are hypocrites") and strawmen ("What about the exploited humans?!"). If you're interested, maybe try again in a new thread without such blatant disdain.


    If that was directed to my question, that is a complete mischaracterization. I did not call vegans hypocrites but rather asked by what philosophical metaphysic one appeals to in order to deem this method of eating more "ethical" than another. In fact, I asked if utilitarianism was used as the moral grounding on this, and I think a pretty good case based on utility could be used. In fact, and my memory is dim on this, but I think a very noted writer by the name of Peter Singer does just this. Hazy on that though.

    I respect the choice of others too. I also rather bristle at folks that a) want to take away my foie gras (yes, not all vegans toss red paint at nice restaurants) and b) want to limit my choices (back to foie gras) and c) on the personal or anecdotal level raise a fuss at a social function (again, not all of them do that).

    As to taxonomic vs. some short hand, I can only react to what's on the page.

    Edit: Oh, you never answered my question. Do you feel any examination is "defensive"? I mean, what do I have to defend? I have no moral dileman, as you stated you felt people do, I could give a damn about how other folks eat...I'm just not seeing it. The fact you characterize it this way is loaded.
     


  10. Nosu3

    Nosu3 Senior member

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    Let's play a game!

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG] very true

    The nitpicking at any flaws in someone's veganism is very annoying. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
     


  11. Piobaire

    Piobaire Not left of center?

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    [​IMG] very true

    The nitpicking at any flaws in someone's veganism is very annoying. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.


    So if it doesn't have to be all or nothing, what are the parameters? Is it okay to eat "humane" foie gras vs. gavage? Only have veal once a month?
     


  12. gomestar

    gomestar Super Yelper

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    The nitpicking at any flaws in someone's veganism is very annoying. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

    tell that to these folks

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_108278892/

     


  13. Nil

    Nil Senior member

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    Really? This is difficult to figure out? Pepperoni tastes good, and maybe, just maybe, some people would like to still eat it if problematic issues of ethics and morality were removed from the equation?

    The problem is none of these fake meat substitutes taste like the real thing. They're merely an approximation of real food and if you can't tell the difference between the two, your taste buds suck. There are enough protein substitutes one can use without creating these vegan frankenfood monstrosities. Tofu, seitan, chickpeas, beans, etc. all taste good without having to use food coloring and strange chemicals to make them seem like meat.
     


  14. Piobaire

    Piobaire Not left of center?

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    The problem is none of these fake meat substitutes taste like the real thing. They're merely an approximation of real food and if you can't tell the difference between the two, your taste buds suck. There are enough protein substitutes one can use without creating these vegan frankenfood monstrosities. Tofu, seitan, chickpeas, beans, etc. all taste good without having to use food coloring and strange chemicals to make them seem like meat.

    +1. Since I revamped my eating habits last year, I figured out I've been going about eating healthier all wrong. Eat food for what it is. Don't shrink from it or try to make it something it's not.
     


  15. Nosu3

    Nosu3 Senior member

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    So if it doesn't have to be all or nothing, what are the parameters? Is it okay to eat "humane" foie gras vs. gavage? Only have veal once a month?

    I was mostly talking about when people bring up field mice that may be harmed in food production or if a vegan accidentally steps on an insect. I don't understand why people look for insignificant things, as if veganism must be flawless or else it is hypocritical.
     


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