Deadlifts n' Squats

[Bandwagonesque]

Are deadlifts really as good as some people make them out to be? I have no idea what this exercise is supposed to be targetting - my lower back? My hamstrings? Each time I try it, I feel like I should up the weight, but worry my back will give out or something. In other words, I never feel fatigued after doing a set, unlike other exercises. They certainly don't feel like the safest exercise either. Any tips for the proper form for doing these, and what you should absolutely never do?

Regarding squats - how far down should one go, and how far apart should your knees be spaced? Any absolute no-nos for this routine?

What's a good estimate for how much weight one of average build (5'11, 155 lbs) should be able to do for a deadlift or a squat? A few months ago, I was doing about 200 lbs for squats, and 90 for deadlifts.

 

[vinhle37]

Squat and Deadlifts are great exercises because of the fact that they are compound exercises. Squats primarily target the quadriceps but also stimulates neighboring muscles such as glutes, lower back, hamstrings, abductors, gastrocnemius, obliques, and last but not least your spine. Deadlifts primarily target the hamstrings, most of the muscles listed above, and in addition to that it also stimulates a lot of your lower and upper back and shoulder muscles.

I find it very strange that you mentioned that squats don't seem to make you sore or tired as much compared to other muscles. From experience, i have found that squats and deadlifts are the most demanding exercises in my workout regimen. They are not that easy to perform CORRECTLY. In regards to your question about how far down you should go, there are two school of thoughts. One says that you should go glutes should be almost touching the ground. The other says that your thigh should not pass 90 degrees when going down. Personally I like to go down until i'm almost touching the ground. I find that doing this stimulates more of my quadriceps.

Anyways for starters try peforming sets of 20 reps and see if you get sore after that.

 

[Valgar]

Originally Posted by Bandwagonesque

Are deadlifts really as good as some people make them out to be? I have no idea what this exercise is supposed to be targetting - my lower back? My hamstrings? Each time I try it, I feel like I should up the weight, but worry my back will give out or something. In other words, I never feel fatigued after doing a set, unlike other exercises. They certainly don't feel like the safest exercise either. Any tips for the proper form for doing these, and what you should absolutely never do? Regarding squats - how far down should one go, and how far apart should your knees be spaced? Any absolute no-nos for this routine? What's a good estimate for how much weight one of average build (5'11, 155 lbs) should be able to do for a deadlift or a squat? A few months ago, I was doing about 200 lbs for squats, and 90 for deadlifts.
Well you aren't fatigued because your aren't weighting up ~_~. Deadlifts are amazing, I feel winded after doing a set. Of course I've never seen anyone else in the college gym do them

. Use a mixed grip (one overhand, one underhand) and keep feet shoulder width apart. NEVER round your back, keep it as straight as possible. When you lift you should imagine pushing through the ground with your heels (just like squats really). Pull your shoulders back towards the top. After you have raised, squat back down. The bar will probably rub up and down your shins. Start out light and get the technique down, then slowly add weights until you feel comfortable. http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...BDeadlift.html

 

[Bandwagonesque]

Thanks guys. My concern with doing deadlifts is that I pulled my lower back twice when I was 16 by setting fence post holes in rocky soil. Ever since then, my lower back has always been my weakness, but instead of just sitting around and crying about it, I'd rather strengthen my back.

The graphic on the exrx website is similar to how I've been doing mine I think. Sometimes I feel the urge to keep my legs locked... othertimes I think my back might round.

I'll keep at it... just hope I don't pull something one day!

 

[Tck13]

Originally Posted by Bandwagonesque

Regarding squats - how far down should one go, and how far apart should your knees be spaced? Any absolute no-nos for this routine?

I'll be general but a normal position for squats is feet shoulder width apart and bending until the legs are parallel to the floor. (Don't cave your legs in towards each other) The farther apart your legs, the more weight you can do and the more you work your ass and hamstrings. The closer together your feet are, the more you will work your quads and the less weight you will be able to do.

For example, powerlifters use a wide stance for more weight (and they always have those weightlifter asses!). You'll never see a power lifter with his/her feet 6-8 inches apart.

When I lifted, one thing that helped me was keeping my back straight and looking up towards the top of the squat machine (or point on the wall). It will help you maintain your balance. If you look down or straight ahead, you may have a tendency to fall slightly forward. Not good if you are going heavy as you could lose your balance.

Never lock your legs when you are in a standing position. Always keep your knees bent.

As far as moving up in weight, your legs are the biggest muscles on your body. The increments you will move up in weight are probably going to be larger than if you are doing bi's or tri's. In other words, throw 2 x 25lbs on the bar instead of 5 or 10 lbs. Don't worry, you'll find the weight where your legs will hurt. You probably just have to throw more weight on the bar than your normally used to. When your legs shake slightly as you're leaving the gym, you'll know that you have found a good weight. Just don't over do it.

Finally, another suggestion. I used to do Monday-chest / tri Tuesday - back / bi, another day shoulders / calves, and then legs. Then someone suggested that since the legs are the biggest muscles, why not do them on the first day of the week? It worked out very well.

 

[Jared]

I know nothing about this, but since it hasn't been mentioned yet: lifting belts are supposed to protect your back under some circumstances. See, for example: http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/s.../aa060201a.htm Regardless, if you have a history of back injury you should book a session with a trainer to make sure you're following proper form.

 

[Gradstudent78]

Three part article:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460511
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460512
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460368

PDF with info:
http://www.backfitpro.com/recent%20a...ht%20belts.pdf

 

[javyn]

a trick to getting good form with squats is to try and never let your knees go past your feet as you squat down

 

[vanity]

Ssk a trainer at the gym on proper technique. All the reading in the world isn't going to push your ass out and your chin up. It's best to have someone correct your form during the movement, you'll learn much faster.

 

[alsback]

Originally Posted by javyn

a trick to getting good form with squats is to try and never let your knees go past your feet as you squat down

yes put your feet out far enough in front of you so that when you are going down your knees do not go over your feet.

 

[marc237]

Originally Posted by alsback

yes put your feet out far enough in front of you so that when you are going down your knees do not go over your feet.

Respectfully disagree. If done properly, knees can extend beyond feet. See, e.g., http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Squats.html and http://www.johnberardi.com/updates/j...3/na_myths.htm.

Also, good luck with asking the trainer. I have been doing weights for many years. My observation is that most trainers do not know proper form and are themselves very poorly trained. You are far better off identifying the serious lifters at your gym or school and working with them or identifying those trainers who have received certifications from groups such as NFPT or ACE.

 

[thinman]

Originally Posted by vanity

Ssk a trainer at the gym on proper technique. All the reading in the world isn't going to push your ass out and your chin up. It's best to have someone correct your form during the movement, you'll learn much faster.
I second this. The key to correct form on both exercises is creating a "block". Inhale sharply, hold shoulders back and down, arch your back by moving your pelvis toward 6 o'clock (top of the pelvis forward), and exhale on the way up, even for squats. This will protect your back and, ideally, keep you from rounding your shoulders on deadlifts. The book "Strength Training Anatomy" explains this, but all the reading in the world won't give you the proper technique. You need to see it done and have someone watch you do it yourself until you can feel the correct form every time. I was fortunate and found a trainer who has trained Olympic caliber lifters. Deadlifts are great for the back extensors (small of the back), hamstrings, and gluts. Squats and deadlifts are my most demanding lifts.

 

[alsback]

Originally Posted by marc237

Respectfully disagree. If done properly, knees can extend beyond feet. See, e.g., http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Squats.html and http://www.johnberardi.com/updates/j...3/na_myths.htm.
oh shiiiiit, thanks a lot. I was always tought to not put your knees in front of your feet and thats what a lot of sources say but i guess its just a myth.

 

[Stylin-1]

Originally Posted by Bandwagonesque

Are deadlifts really as good as some people make them out to be? I have no idea what this exercise is supposed to be targetting - my lower back? My hamstrings? Each time I try it, I feel like I should up the weight, but worry my back will give out or something. In other words, I never feel fatigued after doing a set, unlike other exercises. They certainly don't feel like the safest exercise either. Any tips for the proper form for doing these, and what you should absolutely never do?

Regarding squats - how far down should one go, and how far apart should your knees be spaced? Any absolute no-nos for this routine?

What's a good estimate for how much weight one of average build (5'11, 155 lbs) should be able to do for a deadlift or a squat? A few months ago, I was doing about 200 lbs for squats, and 90 for deadlifts.
Deadlifts are great for your hams and lower back. I have some intermittant back problems myself, but a good leg workout, with attention to proper form, actually helps in this regard. One thing that works for me is to superset deadlifts with back extensions. (This is the machine that you rest your heals against a base plate and your thighs against the frame, then bend your upper body down and then back up, inline with your legs.) You can also hold a weight plate across your chest for more resistance. There really aren't any rules carved in stone, as far as absolute weights to use, but as you become more comfortable with deadlifts, I bet you'll get the weight to within 70-80% of your squat weight. I'd focus more on technique and form than the amount of weight used. As someone else mentioned, I also advocate the one hand over, one hand under method, and do strictly straight legged deads. The barbell should scrape your shins to some degree.

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by Stylin-1

There really aren't any rules carved in stone, as far as absolute weights to use, but as you become more comfortable with deadlifts, I bet you'll get the weight to within 70-80% of your squat weight.

I believe I have read somewhere that reasonable goals for the big 3 exercises are: BW x 1.5 for bench press, BW x 2 for squat and BW x 2.5 for deadlift. The numbers could move around a bit though, as I notice my max deadlift and max squat are about the same...