Custom White's Boots ... Thoughts?

[wordfool]

And to be fair, it's nowhere near the worst offender I've seen!

It's just one of those things that seems to really bother me; marketing departments making stuff up, when there's literally no reason for them to do so.

For example, Thursday Boots ironically-titled 'Honest Pricing Guarantee', where they claim their $200 Captain boots are the equivalent of boots nearly four times the price. They're not - not even close - but they probably are one of the best options if you've only got $200 to spend on a pair of GYW boots. If Thursday's marketing department can't make hay from having one of the best sub $200 boots on the market, they shouldn't be the marketing department. They've got enough to work with; why make stuff up?

Or Red Wing claiming "the Iron Ranger was originally built for iron miners in the 1930s", when in reality it was designed by Aki Iwasaki of Red Wing Japan in 2009. The Iron Ranger must be one of the best selling GYW boots in the world; again surely that's enough for Red Wing's marketing department to work with, without resorting to making stuff up?

Similarly, White's have got tons of history and heritage for their marketing department to fall back on. Why, of all companies, do they feel inclined to be disingenous about the state of their competitors?

I'm not saying they're big, important lies; but in some ways that bothers me more. If a company can't be honest about something totally inconsequential, when there's literally no pressure for them to lie, what are they like when it does matter? Integrity counts, and my attitude is that if a company doesn't care about being honest with tiny, inconsequential things, why would they care about being honest the rest of the time?

Rant over, and I know it's an absolutely tiny thing, but for some reason it's a real pet peeve of mine. Marketing departments; just make your company look good without making stuff up. It's not that hard!

Having worked for many marketing folks over the years as a copywriter, I suspect part of the problem is that they generally don't have their work scrutinized by any C-level executives. Or if they do, those executives just trust the marketing folks are doing whatever it takes to meet sales goals. The result is a gradual morphing of fact into semi-fact and hyperbole that sounds too good to be true and is usually designed to fit a specific narrative that is created before any research is done.

There are also a lot of terrible copywriters and editors out there, often just freelancers, who opt for the most simplistic option because they either don't bother learning the facts, cannot really communicate the complexity of the facts, or just aren't getting paid enough to care (as a former journalist I like to think I had a good grasp of facts and complexities!). And once copy is written, you'd be surprised how long it's simply recycled, year after year, without very few changes or additional scrutiny.

If I were writing Red Wing's IR copy I'd try to talk to Iwasaki and find out more about the early-1900s boot on which his IR design was based. I find that stuff interesting and it would still tie in with the "heritage" narrative.

 

[Jimk4003]

Having worked for many marketing folks over the years as a copywriter, I suspect part of the problem is that they generally don't have their work scrutinized by any C-level executives. Or if they do, those executives just trust the marketing folks are doing whatever it takes to meet sales goals. The result is a gradual morphing of fact into semi-fact and hyperbole that sounds too good to be true and is usually designed to fit a specific narrative that is created before any research is done.

There are also a lot of terrible copywriters and editors out there, often just freelancers, who opt for the most simplistic option because they either don't bother learning the facts, cannot really communicate the complexity of the facts, or just aren't getting paid enough to care (as a former journalist I like to think I had a good grasp of facts and complexities!). And once copy is written, you'd be surprised how long it's simply recycled, year after year, without very few changes or additional scrutiny.

If I were writing Red Wing's IR copy I'd try to talk to Iwasaki and find out more about the early-1900s boot on which his IR design was based. I find that stuff interesting and it would still tie in with the "heritage" narrative.

I think you're absolutely right.

I sometimes get ad copy sent to me by our marketing department to proof-read before they post it, and if I had a penny for every time I had to go back to them and tell them to remove something; because it's either unintentionally misleading, or just fundamentally inaccurate? Well, I'd have a few pennies.

I work in a technology sector where there's lots of buzz about things like 'AI', 'machine learning', 'cloud', etc., so naturally all these buzzwords find their way into ad copy. But the guys writing the copy are usually never technical, and I constantly have to remind people that if we promise we can do something, people might expect us to, you know, actually be able to do it.

There's often a disconnect between the people making the promises (the marketing department), and the people who then have to keep those promises (production staff, engineers, tech teams, etc.). And guess who gets it in the neck if it turns out we can't deliver something promised in our marketing? It's not the marketing department.

 

[brandonboot]

Or Red Wing claiming "the Iron Ranger was originally built for iron miners in the 1930s", when in reality it was designed by Aki Iwasaki of Red Wing Japan in 2009. The Iron Ranger must be one of the best selling GYW boots in the world; again surely that's enough for Red Wing's marketing department to work with, without resorting to making stuff

You know I always thought to myself that iron rangers are PROBABLY just really tough to break in (almost impossible why am I doing this? Kind of tough) because that’s what a coal miner would want but now I’m having second thoughts

 

[chicagoan2016]

I work in a technology sector where there's lots of buzz about things like 'AI', 'machine learning', 'cloud', etc.

…And guess who gets it in the neck if it turns out we can't deliver something promised in our marketing? It's not the marketing department.

I also work in Information Technology, in government sector.
I could write a book about what you mentioned above and happen to me on a regular basis lol

 

[Jimk4003]

I work in Information Technology in government sector.
I could write a book about what you mentioned above and happen to me on regular basis lol

My former boss and mentor used to call the marketing department 'flower arrangers'; they make things look pretty, but no-one really knows what they're for.

 

[DG123]

White’s boots have helped me get rid of back pain. I do have weird feet , just don’t have the courage to go for surgery lol.
I have found that my white’s boots with bounty hunter heels (dogger?) are the most comfortable footwear on paved surfaces.
Packer heels are relatively comfortable.

I believe you've found dogger style heeled footwear to be comfortable because the .50" to .75" heel height puts your body in an orientation that helps you achieve balanced posture while standing and walking. More so than any sort of arch support that a particular footbed may offer, heel height is the real game changer.

 

[wordfool]

My former boss and mentor used to call the marketing department 'flower arrangers'; they make things look pretty, but no-one really knows what they're for.

In my experience they often compete with the Human Resources department for the "Most Useless" award. And the White's QC department would also be up there competing

 

[chicagoan2016]

In my experience they often compete with the Human Resources department for the "Most Useless" award. And the White's QC department would also be up there competing

Don’t get me started 😂
But after working in government I understand why people don’t want to pay taxes! The way our government spends money!
If you know a politician you could have a 250k (at least ) job doing nothing but tax payers are footing the bill for your salary and benefits!

 

[Hellraysaz]

You make good points!
You know I am not a fan of Nick’s!
The reason I would probably never buy Nick’s is, everything they say about White’s is incorrect, their employees posting fake reviews, taking childish swipes at White’s, partnering with YouTube
“stars” to post videos about Nick’s vs White’s comparisons….
Not my style, I would stick with White’s/Baker’s.
With Kyle’s unmatched skills, White’s provides the best value for me.

Having shopped for both brand, I've stumbled across posts that felt like the opposite of that...

For example here is Stoic Sasquatch, merch manager at Nick's mentionning he actually owns five pairs of White's and making a nuanced observation of them. Here he is also complimenting Bakers.

Here the owner of Nick's is actually recommending GS, mentioning White's and actually apologizing when recommending his own product.

Not trying to call you out, but perhaps it's a bit more nuanced than you make it out to be...

 

[brandonboot]

No need for nicks strays they make great boots

 

[Percivilla]

Having shopped for both brand, I've stumbled across posts that felt like the opposite of that...

For example here is Stoic Sasquatch, merch manager at Nick's mentionning he actually owns five pairs of White's and making a nuanced observation of them. Here he is also complimenting Bakers.

Here the owner of Nick's is actually recommending GS, mentioning White's and actually apologizing when recommending his own product.

Not trying to call you out, but perhaps it's a bit more nuanced than you make it out to be...

I've also seen a Nicks employee on Reddit conducting themselves much the same, complimenting Whites and very tactfully going over the similarities and differences, even going so far as to mention their own pairs of Whites being among their favourites. Very classy.

 

[Implacable]

Hey guys,

I‘m on the fence regarding my choice of SD leather. I’m split between Tan Latigo or Veg tanned. I want a leather that that won’t get too dark with time. Hoping to roughly land in the “caramel/dark amber patina” as opposed to the “chocolate/dark brown patina”. While Tan Lat. looks gorgeous initially, I’m not sure how much it darkens over time. Right now, my lean is to Veg tan but would love others’ input.

Thanks

 

[Rymanocerous]

@Jimk4003
I used to buy Allen Edmonds , US made with original Horween leather and dainite soles for around $200 during their sale events.
One time I bought their Higgins Mills in black CXL for $157, although factory seconds but with no flaws.
I don’t agree with Thursday boots’ honest prices claim. I wouldn’t pay more than $70-$80 for Thursday boots.

I would re-buy my Thursdays multiple times for $200. I still put more wears on them than any other boot I own. As @LA Guy mentioned with his Vans, they are lightweight and comfortable. I've cared for them the same as my other footwear and while not beat, they have certainly seen several adverse conditions and keep plugging along.

I wouldn't presume to tell anyone that $200 isn't a lot of money...it is. But in a world where Nikes are $100-$150 and most fashion footwear is about the same, I don't find $200 to be a bridge too far. Marketing campaigns for many products suck and are usually exaggerations and cherry picked positive experiences. It's taken me a long time to accept that and set it aside and determine the value of a product myself. No they aren't close to my Vibergs or Whites. They are a perfectly venerable, inexpensive boot that I have enjoy a lot and plays a welcomed role in my footwear arsenal. When I consider value to price, my Thursdays are a much better value than the Vibergs.

 

[LA Guy]

Hey guys,

I‘m on the fence regarding my choice of SD leather. I’m split between Tan Latigo or Veg tanned. I want a leather that that won’t get too dark with time. Hoping to roughly land in the “caramel/dark amber patina” as opposed to the “chocolate/dark brown patina”. While Tan Lat. looks gorgeous initially, I’m not sure how much it darkens over time. Right now, my lean is to Veg tan but would love others’ input.

Thanks

Ime, veg tanned leathers often get darker over time than chrome tanned leathers, but also ime, it depends on the conditions in which you wear them. Hope that helps.

 

[hoppy_IPA]

Ime, veg tanned leathers often get darker over time than chrome tanned leathers, but also ime, it depends on the conditions in which you wear them. Hope that helps.

Neither of the referenced leathers are chrome tanned.