Custom White's Boots ... Thoughts?

[klank74]

Yeah, as I've gotten older I've come to just embrace my lanky build and long feet. I'm 38 6'5" and 195lbs so not exactly a power lifter build ;-)

The 12 MP's have quite a bit if length. I wear Costco merino wool socks in them and my toes don't hit the end even when I crouch down on the balls of my feet. Definitely no extra toe wiggle room though.

My issue is that my Heel to Ball of foot size is more like an 11, but my toes are a mile long...

I see why they sized you at a 12 then. Usually you wanna try and size to your heel to ball measurement so the arch support fits in the right spot. With your toes needing so much room, I would normally say the 38 swing last might be the way to go. However, since you have high arches, I don’t know if they would have enough arch support for you…well, I guess if the Lower arch support in the MP works for you, the 38 should.
I feel your pain man. My feet are similar to yours in that I have a narrow foot, even narrower heel, normal arch height, but low instep. However, I have short toes. My feet measure a 13C, heel to toe, but my heel to ball is a 14. I’m 6’5”, 320lbs. All my Whites are on the 38 last, in a 13C with an instep adjustment for my low instep. 3 of my 4 pairs are combo last, 13C with a B heel and they fit perfect. My problem has always been that if a boot fits my forefoot good, the heel is loose (major heel slip), and the sides of the vamp are almost touching with the laces pulled tight because of my low instep. If I got one to fit my instep and heel good, then it was too tight around the ball of my foot.

 

[Percivilla]

I see why they sized you at a 12 then. Usually you wanna try and size to your heel to ball measurement so the arch support fits in the right spot. With your toes needing so much room, I would normally say the 38 swing last might be the way to go. However, since you have high arches, I don’t know if they would have enough arch support for you…well, I guess if the Lower arch support in the MP works for you, the 38 should.
I feel your pain man. My feet are similar to yours in that I have a narrow foot, even narrower heel, normal arch height, but low instep. However, I have short toes. My feet measure a 13C, heel to toe, but my heel to ball is a 14. I’m 6’5”, 320lbs. All my Whites are on the 38 last, in a 13C with an instep adjustment for my low instep. 3 of my 4 pairs are combo last, 13C with a B heel and they fit perfect. My problem has always been that if a boot fits my forefoot good, the heel is loose (major heel slip), and the sides of the vamp are almost touching with the laces pulled tight because of my low instep. If I got one to fit my instep and heel good, then it was too tight around the ball of my foot.

I feel you on the low instep. Ski Boot fitters fear me!

I'm thinking B width would likely be too narrow for me in the vamp though, my 12d MP's are perfect but by all accounts it's a narrower last than the 55. I'm sure Kyle is probably right on with 12.5c. A 13 might be too long for my Heel to Ball length.

I wouldn't really say the arch in the MP's works for me, I'd love more arch support, but they're better than any other "stylish" boot I've tried on. I have thin "Soles" brand footbeds in my work boots and they have huge amounts of arch support.

Here's my MP's laced

 

[klank74]

I feel you on the low instep. Ski Boot fitters fear me!

I'm thinking B width would likely be too narrow for me in the vamp though, my 12d MP's are perfect but by all accounts it's a narrower last than the 55. I'm sure Kyle is probably right on with 12.5c. A 13 might be too long for my Heel to Ball length.

I wouldn't really say the arch in the MP's works for me, I'd love more arch support, but they're better than any other "stylish" boot I've tried on. I have thin "Soles" brand footbeds in my work boots and they have huge amounts of arch support.

Here's my MP's laced

View attachment 1683921

judging by the spacing between the sides of the vamp and the toe creases, I’d say those are sized perfectly, other than the fact that the toe box doesn’t have enough room. I’d wager that Kyle has you sized correctly for the 55 last then.
Hard to tell in that lighting… are those olive waxed flesh?

 

[Percivilla]

judging by the spacing between the sides of the vamp and the toe creases, I’d say those are sized perfectly, other than the fact that the toe box doesn’t have enough room. I’d wager that Kyle has you sized correctly for the 55 last then.
Hard to tell in that lighting… are those olive waxed flesh?

Yeah, agreed. They fit amazing from the ball of foot back. The toe box is getting better as I break in the leather footbeds/midsoles. My big toes are forming indentations. Sure wouldn't want them any shorter though!

Yes sir, Olive waxed flesh. I'm in Calgary and Brooklyn Clothing is ten minutes away from my house so I was able to try them on before buying. First waxed flesh boots, it's a very cool leather. I'm not a rough out fan, but this is way different. Totally waterproof too.

For my soon to be ordered bounty hunters I'm debating between dark brown waxed flesh, brown dress, or either distressed smooth or brown smooth.

They're going to be 7" roll top, no toe cap, no celastic, single midsole, standard heel. Basically a standard smoke jumper but shortened to 7".

Only downside I can see to the standard heel is being 6'7" wearing them...

 

[klank74]

Yeah, agreed. They fit amazing from the ball of foot back. The toe box is getting better as I break in the leather footbeds/midsoles. My big toes are forming indentations. Sure wouldn't want them any shorter though!

Yes sir, Olive waxed flesh. I'm in Calgary and Brooklyn Clothing is ten minutes away from my house so I was able to try them on before buying. First waxed flesh boots, it's a very cool leather. I'm not a rough out fan, but this is way different. Totally waterproof too.

For my soon to be ordered bounty hunters I'm debating between dark brown waxed flesh, brown dress, or either distressed smooth or brown smooth.

They're going to be 7" roll top, no toe cap, no celastic, single midsole, standard heel. Basically a standard smoke jumper but shortened to 7".

Only downside I can see to the standard heel is being 6'7" wearing them...

See I screwed up. I got my very first pair of Whites (SD’s) in brown dress and they spoiled me. Brown dress breaks in pretty easy. My last pair, 6” LTT BH’s, are olive waxed flesh as well, but break in has been rough. Their getting there, I just didn’t get to wear them as much as I would have liked this summer. I agree though, I love the leather and the way it looks.
I went with standard height heels too and now I find myself hitting my head on doorways that I didn’t before?

 

[Percivilla]

See I screwed up. I got my very first pair of Whites (SD’s) in brown dress and they spoiled me. Brown dress breaks in pretty easy. My last pair, 6” LTT BH’s, are olive waxed flesh as well, but break in has been rough. Their getting there, I just didn’t get to wear them as much as I would have liked this summer. I agree though, I love the leather and the way it looks.
I went with standard height heels too and now I find myself hitting my head on doorways that I didn’t before?

Have you owned both heel heights? Any preference? I'd prefer not to make myself any taller but 1/4 inch ain't much I suppose...

 

[klank74]

Have you owned both heel heights? Any preference? I'd prefer not to make myself any taller but 1/4 inch ain't much I suppose...

No I haven’t. I briefly thought about going with a 1/4” higher lift to try and get a little higher arch support on the 38 last ( standard height, the 38’s arch support is somewhere between the 55 last and the MP). However, I start to get some discomfort on the bottom of my feet, right where my toes meet the ball of my foot after a long day walking on concrete. I think I walk and stand with my weight to far forward, putting too much pressure on the balls of my feet. I feel like lifting the heels another 1/4” would just exaggerate that. I’d consider trying a lower heel, but I’m afraid it will diminish what little arch support the 38 last has. I’ll probably ask Kyle about it when I’m ready to order another pair or send one in for resole. It sucks getting older ( I’m 40 myself). You make one small change to your footwear and it can throw everything out of whack?

 

[Percivilla]

Wow, and here I was thinking I was unique. I’m also 14B brannock. My first pair of Whites were 12D smokejumpers (the real NFPA soft toe fire boots). They fit great.

I’ve probably got 7 or 8 pairs of whites now and they’re in various lasts and sizes. My most recent are on the 4811 last and in size 12 ½ C. This is probably my ideal fit. Listen to Kyle.

The only proviso that I would add is about the 5050 last. I have those in size 12D and they are a bit too small. I should have got 12 ½ D in that last.

Dont get the swing last. Your feet are too narrow. Plus…. Those things look like ridiculous clown shoes!!!! Sorry all, I couldn’t resist.

@ThreeLions, a couple more questions for you...

Kyle mentioned in one email that the 55 last runs a half size shorter than the MP, yet recommended the 12.5c in that last. I mentioned that I'd like more length than my 12d MP's but I suspect he missed that based on some of his advice. I sent a message seeking clarification.

He also mentioned that for every half size you go up, to go down a width. I asked in my most recent reply if a 13b in a 55 last would be a similar width to my 12d MP's? How does any of this corroborate with your experience over multiple pairs? How much extra length did you have in your 12d and 12.5c smoke jumpers?

I've just had way too many pairs of footwear not work long term because I sized them to close on length trying to get the width right, then when they break in my toes start hitting the end. I just want some boots that are snug but with room for my piggies.

 

[Phalanx]

I just want some boots that are snug but with room for my piggies.

Enquire about a combo-last. For example, I've got a pair of MPs being made at the moment which are 13E in the toe and 13D in the heel. Might solve all your problems.

Also, ask about a try-on pair. It's a lot of money to spend on a pair of shoes that might not fit; you might find they have something you can try on.

 

[chicagoan2016]

Enquire about a combo-last. For example, I've got a pair of MPs being made at the moment which are 13E in the toe and 13D in the heel. Might solve all your problems.

Also, ask about a try-on pair. It's a lot of money to spend on a pair of shoes that might not fit; you might find they have something you can try on.

Combo last is probably the best invention since sliced bread!
People talk about engine, electricity, computers and "stuff" like that.
In my experience Brandon was spot on with his size recommendation but a pair of try on boots is a good idea.

 

[ThreeLions]

@ThreeLions, a couple more questions for you...

Kyle mentioned in one email that the 55 last runs a half size shorter than the MP, yet recommended the 12.5c in that last. I mentioned that I'd like more length than my 12d MP's but I suspect he missed that based on some of his advice. I sent a message seeking clarification.

He also mentioned that for every half size you go up, to go down a width. I asked in my most recent reply if a 13b in a 55 last would be a similar width to my 12d MP's? How does any of this corroborate with your experience over multiple pairs? How much extra length did you have in your 12d and 12.5c smoke jumpers?

I've just had way too many pairs of footwear not work long term because I sized them to close on length trying to get the width right, then when they break in my toes start hitting the end. I just want some boots that are snug but with room for my piggies.

My MP's were built on the 5050 combo last and are in size 12D. They feel significantly smaller than my 4811 Smokejumpers (in size 12D) and my Brit Tan Semi-Dress (55 last) in size 12D.

To me, the 5050 feels both shorter and narrower than the 55 or the 4811 in the same size.

 

[Alaskaking]

@ThreeLions, a couple more questions for you...

Kyle mentioned in one email that the 55 last runs a half size shorter than the MP, yet recommended the 12.5c in that last. I mentioned that I'd like more length than my 12d MP's but I suspect he missed that based on some of his advice. I sent a message seeking clarification.

He also mentioned that for every half size you go up, to go down a width. I asked in my most recent reply if a 13b in a 55 last would be a similar width to my 12d MP's? How does any of this corroborate with your experience over multiple pairs? How much extra length did you have in your 12d and 12.5c smoke jumpers?

I've just had way too many pairs of footwear not work long term because I sized them to close on length trying to get the width right, then when they break in my toes start hitting the end. I just want some boots that are snug but with room for my piggies.

The language on sizing I always find a bit confusing.....I'm sure no one will hesitate to correct me, but, if the last runs shorter, do you order a larger or smaller size? I thought I had read once that the MP has to be ordered in a longer length compared to a 55, if that's true, than the same length in 55 compared to a MP should be longer???

math often doesn't work in my brain.

 

[Percivilla]

My MP's were built on the 5050 combo last and are in size 12D. They feel significantly smaller than my 4811 Smokejumpers (in size 12D) and my Brit Tan Semi-Dress (55 last) in size 12D.

To me, the 5050 feels both shorter and narrower than the 55 or the 4811 in the same size.

How much room did you have ahead of your toes in the 12d 4811 and 55?

 

[Percivilla]

The language on sizing I always find a bit confusing.....I'm sure no one will hesitate to correct me, but, if the last runs shorter, do you order a larger or smaller size? I thought I had read once that the MP has to be ordered in a longer length compared to a 55, if that's true, than the same length in 55 compared to a MP should be longer???

math often doesn't work in my brain.

My understanding is the opposite. That a 12 in the MP would be the same length as a 12.5 in the 55?

 

[Alaskaking]

My understanding is the opposite. That a 12 in the MP would be the same length as a 12.5 in the 55?

that's what I thought as well, but my head does a little back flip in doing so...