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wordfool

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okay, you've reached approval standard for a remake imo (not that you need my approval or asked). Shoddy

Man I hope my shell order comes out better...

They should serious hire someone here from Styleforum to do some QC if they intend to play in the "casual/fashion boot" forum

I feel jinxed. My MPs arrive tomorrow so it'll be interesting to see if I go 0 for 3.
 
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paulraphael

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Do White's boots run wide for the nominal width?

Kyle finally reviewed my tracings and believes I need an 11-B on the left and an 11-C on the right. I've always thought I had medium to wide feet. My most common fit problem is the toe box being too narrow.

Does this seem strange?
 

Legal Eagles

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Do White's boots run wide for the nominal width?

Kyle finally reviewed my tracings and believes I need an 11-B on the left and an 11-C on the right. I've always thought I had medium to wide feet. My most common fit problem is the toe box being too narrow.

Does this seem strange?
Which last is he sizing you for? Is the last that will best fit your foot shape? This is important because every last is different, as is every foot.

I will say other than the Packer, White's has generous toe box volume. You may have been buying medium to wide boots all your life to get the toe volume but not really needing the extra with in the arch or heel. If he was sizing you in the 38 Swing, you get the toe width you need from the shape of the last, and so may not need as wide a measured width.

Have you told him your Brannock and fit in other lasts? (Alden Trubalance or Barrie is a good comparison point).

If the sizing is not too crazy... like 11D to 11C, I would trust Kyle... if it is way out of whack... like you wear a 13EE and he says 11C, I would question it.

Is Kyle willing to guarantee the fit if you go with his recommendation? Have you tried the E-Bay try on and return method? Have you gotten sizing advice straight from White's as well? Did you send measurements as well as tracings?

By the way... my opinion only... if there would be an up-charge for different sized boots in the same pair, and the width is only one width different, I would just order both boots in 11C... the difference is really minimal and you save some money.

Generally Kyle gets it right.
 

paulraphael

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I'm at a bit of a disadvantage, because I don't own any shoes with standard lasts, and none of my other shoes even come in widths. So I just know the general reputation of some of the makers' lasts. And really, the only shoes I've paid close attention to regarding fit are athletic shoes.

That's a good point that I may have been getting wide shoes to accommodate the toe box. I've also noticed that too-wide shoes can be quite comfortable (my Blundstones are probably too wide, but they're comfortable to walk in all day).

I wish I knew my Brannock measurement.
 

Phalanx

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Do White's boots run wide for the nominal width?

Kyle finally reviewed my tracings and believes I need an 11-B on the left and an 11-C on the right. I've always thought I had medium to wide feet. My most common fit problem is the toe box being too narrow.

Does this seem strange?

Try on a pair of 11D Iron Rangers and see how they fit. My experience of White's is they're comparable to Red Wing sizing. If Iron Rangers are too wide for you then Kyle's probably onto something.
 

Legal Eagles

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I wish I knew my Brannock measurement.
Do you have a local shoe store? They would likely measure your Brannock size for you. Just make sure you get your arch length and heel-to-toe length. Hopefully they are the same or close, and you go with the larger of the two. You can even take a picture of your feet in the device and send that to Kyle as well.

A good Brannock measurement (along with circumference of the various parts of the foot) is a good start because it is so standardized. Just make sure the person doing the measurement knows what they are doing.

Now for the ultimate in fitting... who remembers these?
1591369136988.png

What could go wrong?
 

linafelt

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Do White's boots run wide for the nominal width?

Kyle finally reviewed my tracings and believes I need an 11-B on the left and an 11-C on the right. I've always thought I had medium to wide feet. My most common fit problem is the toe box being too narrow.

Does this seem strange?
I have found, and I think it used to be the consensus among others, that the 55 last is relatively narrow, so that some retailers will even order stock E width as the more normal. SJ and C461 are even more narrow in the toebox, while Swing is much wider.

But for me the bottom line is I would not order a non-returnable pair without trying on exactly the size and width that you’re ordering. Tracings are a start but by no means foolproof..
 

paulraphael

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Do you have a local shoe store? They would likely measure your Brannock size for you. Just make sure you get your arch length and heel-to-toe length. Hopefully they are the same or close, and you go with the larger of the two. You can even take a picture of your feet in the device and send that to Kyle as well.

A good Brannock measurement (along with circumference of the various parts of the foot) is a good start because it is so standardized. Just make sure the person doing the measurement knows what they are doing.

Now for the ultimate in fitting... who remembers these?
View attachment 1400847
What could go wrong?

Unfortunately, shoe stores in NYC aren't going to be open for a while. Are there any downloadable facsimiles of a Brannock device that could be useful?
 

montanamike

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Unfortunately, shoe stores in NYC aren't going to be open for a while. Are there any downloadable facsimiles of a Brannock device that could be useful?

What style boot are you looking at? The reason I ask is say it was a semi dress... Hop on over to Whites ebay page and there is an 11 C there with free shipping. Not to say you should like the options selected but ordering it with the idea of returning to try them out seems like it could be useful. This is how I would approach it. That said, there have been more than a few strange approaches and poor decisions in my past so take my advice with a grain of salt.
 

linafelt

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Unfortunately, shoe stores in NYC aren't going to be open for a while. Are there any downloadable facsimiles of a Brannock device that could be useful?
The other thing is, I don't think Brannocks are all that perfect either! I have one, and when I try to use it my foot looks to me like anything between 9 and 10, and width is who knows... I am sure a knowledgeable shoe seller can read it more accurately, but on your own it might not clear things up.

I think Bakers will send you try on boots right? Or check retailers who have return policies -- Huckberry, Amazon, etc. Even though your sizes are mismatched you could at least try on the more narrow one to see how that feels.
 

Legal Eagles

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Unfortunately, shoe stores in NYC aren't going to be open for a while. Are there any downloadable facsimiles of a Brannock device that could be useful?
You can buy one on e-bay cheap... then download the instruction from the web... trust me it is not rocket science... the hardest part is getting a feel for how tight the device should press the foot.
 

Legal Eagles

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The other thing is, I don't think Brannocks are all that perfect either!
True, there can be some subjectivity based on the user (see my comment about how tightly to press).

And these were designed to be operated by an experienced third party shoe salesman, not the subject themselves (if you can, get someone else to do the measurement).

But all in all it is a standardized metal device, which has been in service for decades, and although not perfect it does allow for about the best comparison of foot sizes short of a 3D laser scan of the entire foot... which would be really cool... Kyle should look into that...
 

wordfool

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I'm at a bit of a disadvantage, because I don't own any shoes with standard lasts, and none of my other shoes even come in widths. So I just know the general reputation of some of the makers' lasts. And really, the only shoes I've paid close attention to regarding fit are athletic shoes.

That's a good point that I may have been getting wide shoes to accommodate the toe box. I've also noticed that too-wide shoes can be quite comfortable (my Blundstones are probably too wide, but they're comfortable to walk in all day).

I wish I knew my Brannock measurement.

Blundstone sizing is weird -- they don’t come in true half sizes and instead the half sizes are wider. I wear Blunnies in an 11 and they’re pretty loose on my skinny feet (tons of space over the top of my foot and around my heel) but they are about right in toe width — as a runner my toes are probably wider relative to the rest of my feet, especially my heel.

What size/brand of athletic shoe do you wear?

Kyle sized me at 10.5C on the 55 last, which sounded about right after years of suffering heel slippage in 10.5D boots (mainly Red Wing and Frye), and they fit me well with plenty of toe room and very secure mid foot. Minor heel slippage on my smaller foot has pretty much gone away after a half dozen outings.

I wear 11.5 in running shoes (mainly Mizuno, which have a relatively narrow heel fit) and my Brannock size is 11.5 (bordering 12 on one foot) with width usually hitting D, depending on socks. It’s not so much that my foot is narrow (especially not the forefoot) but that it’s low volume (mainly height and ankles) and I have “flexible arches”, which doesn’t help. A Brannock device is not going to pick up things like that. So foot measurement is by no means an exact science because feet are all so weirdly unique.
 

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