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hoppy_IPA

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Desert Sand is an offering through Bakers, similar to how you get HH boots made by White’s. Those are likely a return due to sizing etc. from Bakers. I wouldn’t be surprised if Kyle could push through an MP in that leather choice.
 

Trapp

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Has anyone any experience getting a cuban heel changed out to a lowered block heel?

I have both style heels on White's boots and have come to prefer the block. I'd like to get my cuban pairs changed out, and Baker's said they could do it (the price seems reasonable). But now as I look at the cuban heels, I notice the curve begins right up at the leather welt, and it's hard to visualize how the'll be able to change it to a block without doing an entire re-sole.
 

Phalanx

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I have one final question for you guys and then I think I'll make my decision (and stop annoying you all).

Trying the try-on pair again, I think the fit is perfect except for the fact the side of my big toe rubs quite a bit against the side of the toe box (against the celastic portion). My experience of boots (Dr Martens and Red Wing) is that this eventually goes away because the toe box widens at that point. On White's however, the celastic (and I'm assuming I have a single celastic toe here) is so hard that it doesn't really enable this to happen.

Has anyone had an issue like this? I think if it's unlikely to go away (due to the hardiness of the celastic), I'll just send the try-on pair back and go with a soft toe box (since that will obviously shape accordingly).

My feet are probably more similar to the shape of the swing-last (my feet are what seem to be described as "natural" shape) but I really want the arch-ease of the SD last.

[Edit] I suppose another option is I size up 0.5 which will put my big toe a little lower down in the toe box. I'm just worried with a soft toe, the lack of shape will cause my toe to bump the front.

I wonder if there's something in-between a soft toe and a celastic toe. Perhaps getting the boot lined?

Thanks for your time and patience guys; I really appreciate it.
 
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Kissmyanthia

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I have one final question for you guys and then I think I'll make my decision (and stop annoying you all).

Trying the try-on pair again, I think the fit is perfect except for the fact the side of my big toe rubs quite a bit against the side of the toe box (against the celastic portion). My experience of boots (Dr Martens and Red Wing) is that this eventually goes away because the toe box widens at that point. On White's however, the celastic (and I'm assuming I have a single celastic toe here) is so hard that it doesn't really enable this to happen.

Has anyone had an issue like this? I think if it's unlikely to go away (due to the hardiness of the celastic), I'll just send the try-on pair back and go with a soft toe box (since that will obviously shape accordingly).

My feet are probably more similar to the shape of the swing-last (my feet are what seem to be described as "natural" shape) but I really want the arch-ease of the SD last.

[Edit] I suppose another option is I size up 0.5 which will put my big toe a little lower down in the toe box. I'm just worried with a soft toe, the lack of shape will cause my toe to bump the front.

I wonder if there's something in-between a soft toe and a celastic toe. Perhaps getting the boot lined?

Thanks for your time and patience guys; I really appreciate it.
I have the same problem - White's can build your boots with a 'toe bump,' but that changes the look of the shoe. I did this with a pair of the retro oxfords, they look sorta swing las-tish, but they are very comfortable. A better option for me is to go a size wider and/or built with a soft toe.
 

Phalanx

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I have the same problem - White's can build your boots with a 'toe bump,' but that changes the look of the shoe. I did this with a pair of the retro oxfords, they look sorta swing las-tish, but they are very comfortable. A better option for me is to go a size wider and/or built with a soft toe.
Thanks for your input. I think going up a width is out of the question so that leaves soft-toe or request a toe-bump. Looking on whitesriver, the soft toes seem to not cave in when new and retain the 55 last shape so maybe the soft toe is the answer.

Don't suppose you could provide a picture of what the toe-bump looks like could you please?

Cheers
 

TH3515

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Has anyone had an issue like this? I think if it's unlikely to go away (due to the hardiness of the celastic)
In my experience the (single) celastic does have some "give" as well. Right now I am wearing a pair of SDs that are definitely too narrow/short but have noticeably improved over the first dozen wears or so. However, I am not saying this is ideal nor recommending sizing a boot this way.
If you have feet like mine (low volume, narrow heel and instep but wide and long gecko-toes) you should definitely try the #38 "Swing" last (and don't size down on account of the wide toe – IME the fit from heel to ball is significantly narrower than the 55 last).

I'm just worried with a soft toe, the lack of shape will cause my toe to bump the front.
This will of course vary with individual fit and foot shape, but my two soft toe White's (#4811 Farmer-Rancher and #55 Hathorn Smokejumper) both form a "bubble" at the very front of the toe box, thereby leaving a lot of room. Seeing that they're built on the same lasts as their celastic brethren, the effective internal volume should be identical regardless of soft vs celastic.

I wonder if there's something in-between a soft toe and a celastic toe.
Just add toe caps to your build – plain or medallion according to taste. White's builds "real" toe caps so you actually get a second (or third if you count the lining) layer of leather over the toes.


White's always line the vamp even on "unlined" boots. IIRC, the lining option only applies to the rear and shaft.
 

Phalanx

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In my experience the (single) celastic does have some "give" as well. Right now I am wearing a pair of SDs that are definitely too narrow/short but have noticeably improved over the first dozen wears or so. However, I am not saying this is ideal nor recommending sizing a boot this way.
If you have feet like mine (low volume, narrow heel and instep but wide and long gecko-toes) you should definitely try the #38 "Swing" last (and don't size down on account of the wide toe – IME the fit from heel to ball is significantly narrower than the 55 last).
As far as I can tell, on the SD that I've received, there's pretty much no give whatsoever. I'm not sure if this is because it's Brown Dress leather (which seems hardy and thiccc) or if it's because the boot actually has a double celastic toe box (no idea), but even if I put a lot of force on my big toe, it's difficult to budge the shape. But yeah, irrespective, I think you're right; one should not size a boot this way.

Regarding the Swing last, I'm really interested in that last but I think I might hold off on that until maybe a second pair of White's. I really like the arch in the SD last and I think the Swing last has a more muted arch. It probably would compliment the shape of my feet more than the 55 last however.

This will of course vary with individual fit and foot shape, but my two soft toe White's (#4811 Farmer-Rancher and #55 Hathorn Smokejumper) both form a "bubble" at the very front of the toe box, thereby leaving a lot of room. Seeing that they're built on the same lasts as their celastic brethren, the effective internal volume should be identical regardless of soft vs celastic.

Just add toe caps to your build – plain or medallion according to taste. White's builds "real" toe caps so you actually get a second (or third if you count the lining) layer of leather over the toes.

White's always line the vamp even on "unlined" boots. IIRC, the lining option only applies to the rear and shaft.
This is a really fantastic reply. I think from your description, a soft-toe is definitely the way to go for me. I'm 100% getting a toe cap so in a way, that's like a "leather celastic" on the toe.

Thank you for your comprehensive reply. I don't suppose you can send me a picture of what your soft toe boots' profiles look like could you please?
 

Dpr422

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I just received a pair of Otto Derbys --- Kyle at Bakers did an amazing job making sure the sizing was correct! I really appreciate the service I received from Bakers and will be buying from them in the future. BTW, the shoes are amazing - exactly what I was looking for..
 

TH3515

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I don't suppose you can send me a picture of what your soft toe boots' profiles look like could you please?
No problem - making and posting boot pics is part of the fun of using this site (much to my girlfriend's dismay)

The "bubble" is most obvious on the brown Farmer-Rancher which uses the 4811 (standard Smokejumper) last with its high toebox.
But you can see the black SJ toe is also far from collapsed or flat. Note that both boots are made of the thick oiltan leather - the toes may develop differently with thinner leathers like calf, water buffalo etc...

882AC04C-BB38-4FCF-B070-74545093FB00.jpeg
D636CD90-9FB8-4A42-B6D0-B9301B51F969.jpeg
DDEB4519-3644-4875-BB91-A01C6BBE44A5.jpeg
27545D66-7172-4B10-86B1-0CBE58C6F534.jpeg
 

Mghart

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Does anyone have any experience with the Dark cherry(I believe it's buffalo?) how's the creasing? And does it take a shine well?
 

Phalanx

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No problem - making and posting boot pics is part of the fun of using this site (much to my girlfriend's dismay)

The "bubble" is most obvious on the brown Farmer-Rancher which uses the 4811 (standard Smokejumper) last with its high toebox.
But you can see the black SJ toe is also far from collapsed or flat. Note that both boots are made of the thick oiltan leather - the toes may develop differently with thinner leathers like calf, water buffalo etc...

View attachment 1177604 View attachment 1177606 View attachment 1177607 View attachment 1177608
Man those toe boxes look exactly how I'd want mine to. Thanks for the pictures; this helps immensely
 

TH3515

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Does anyone have any experience with the Dark cherry(I believe it's buffalo?) how's the creasing? And does it take a shine well?
I've been considering this leather for a while now. If you google "White's Black Cherry Water Buffalo" you'll find a ton of images. The water buffalo is pretty thin (nevertheless tough and durable) and can take a beautiful shine. Creasing seems to be unpredictable: Judging from the pics of well worn WB boots there can be anything from fine, elegant micro-wrinkles up to deep, uneven creasing which I find less attractive. You tend to find all varieties on the same boot.
 

Mghart

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I've been considering this leather for a while now. If you google "White's Black Cherry Water Buffalo" you'll find a ton of images. The water buffalo is pretty thin (nevertheless tough and durable) and can take a beautiful shine. Creasing seems to be unpredictable: Judging from the pics of well worn WB boots there can be anything from fine, elegant micro-wrinkles up to deep, uneven creasing which I find less attractive. You tend to find all varieties on the same boot.
Yeah I've seen a fair number of boots from the Japanese retailers that look really nice. It's the inconsistency of creasing you mention that would give me second thought.

I'm thinking of doing a smoke jumper lace to toe, and wonder how that would look. That or burgundy French calf. CXL is fine, but I've owned too much CXL that a different leather would be nice for a change.
 

Zachery Zhu

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Yeah I've seen a fair number of boots from the Japanese retailers that look really nice. It's the inconsistency of creasing you mention that would give me second thought.

I'm thinking of doing a smoke jumper lace to toe, and wonder how that would look. That or burgundy French calf. CXL is fine, but I've owned too much CXL that a different leather would be nice for a change.
Burgundy french calf isn't available for a long time.
 

Phalanx

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Just put my order through with Bakershoe.com . Here's the build:
  • Last: Semi Dress (Bounty Hunter)
  • Counter Leather: Brown Dress
  • Toe Vamp Leather: Brown Dress
  • Upper (Shaft) Leather: Brown Dress
  • Leather Liner: Canyon/Red
  • Lace Design: Plain Toe
  • Pull Loops: Leather Pull Loops
  • Celastic Toe Box: No Thanks
  • Toe Cap: Medallion Toe Cap
  • Toe Cap Leather Color: Brown Dress
  • Steel Toe: No Thanks
  • Hardware: Antique Eyes & Hooks
  • Height: 6"
  • Top: Cut Top (standard)
  • Midsole: Single
  • Edge: Brown
  • Heel Base: Standard
  • Heel Lifts: Standard
  • Sole: Vibram 430 Mini Vib
  • Size - Length: 13
  • Size - Width: EE
  • Logos / Embossing: No logos or embossing
I didn't get the option to specify which trim I wanted so I told them through email.
Hopefully will work out. Thanks for your help guys.
 
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