Custom White's Boots ... Thoughts?

[Alaskaking]

Well, things aren't exactly that simple. I think the rolled welt construction White's uses is certainly more robust than simple stitchdown. Importantly, that rolled welt protects where the stitching goes through the upper leather. With stitchdown, your upper basically *is* the "welt," so if you kick a lot of rocks or shovels or whatever and ding up that stitching area, you're gonna start reducing the viability of a resole by damaging the upper leather.

To be honest, I kind of don't understand where this cult of "stitchdown" came from in the first place, other than maybe Viberg fanboys? It's a super simple construction method compared to a welted shoe. It's not terrible or anything, but championing the construction method used by the likes of Clarks Desert Boots instead of something far more robust and labour-intensive seems misguided to me. Maybe the word just sounds cool?

Perfect timing…
Does the slice through the welt structurally affect the boot, or just expose this stitch you mention?
Would this be problematic in resoling?

 

[Abe_Room]

Double midsole?

JimK explains what a lineman's shank is better in a post down below, which is what I thought a double midsole was called.
Kyle from baker's 🥴🥵 (contain your orgasms boys) told me a lot of people who order a double are really disappointed afterwards. It's a stiffer heavier boot, and the break in is usually hellish. I'm guessing because they're not really meant to become flexible for the above reasons.

 

[chicagoan2016]

2009...I had started this journey then but didn't buy my first pair of White's until 2010 which was a pair of Classic Work Boots...they were 419$

My Vibergs bought in 2012 were some of the last MTO boots they were willing to do and were $650

The classic work boot!!
You have stopped using the acronym CWB 🤣

 

[Jimk4003]

It's not terrible or anything, but championing the construction method used by the likes of Clarks Desert Boots instead of something far more robust and labour-intensive seems misguided to me. Maybe the word just sounds cool?

I think this is why implementation matters more than simply what type of construction is used.

Yes, both a Clarks Desert Boot and most PNW boots are stitchdown, but the way they're implemented is very different. Pull the outsole of a pair of Clarks, for example, and you'll be left with a shapeless leather sock that can't be re-made into a boot without the original last and a lot of work.

Pull the outsole off a pair of Nick's, and you'll just find a thick midsole that's attached to an equally thick insole, with the boot liner sandwiched between them. It'll hold its shape through multiple re-soles, and is very robust. Wesco's, Viberg's, JK, Frank's, etc. are all very similar.

They're all called stitchdown boots, but there's a huge difference in how a Clarks Desert Boot and a pair of PNW boots are actually made.

I like stitchdown because of how water resistant it is. One of the fundamental characteristics of a welted boot, regardless of whether it's hand-welted or GYW, is that you have to attach a welt to the outside of the boot by sewing through the leather upper and the lining and onto the insole. That creates a row of holes right above the midsole which lead directly to the insole inside the boot, and that's usually what your foot is resting on. Stitchdown just designs this issue out completely; there is no continuous stitching through the upper and the liner.

Speaking purely anecdotally, I do find my feet stay dryer for longer in my stitchdown construction boots, regardless of maker, than I do in my welted boots, regardless of whether it's a pair of hand-welted White's, or a basic GYW boot like a pair of Red Wings.

I'd also say I don't consider construction methods with a 'good/better/best' mentality; there are lots of situations where I'll deliberately choose to wear a pair of cemented construction boots, or a pair of Blake stitched shoes. Ultimately it's about suitability for purpose, and stitchdown construction PNW boots are very well suited to their purpose. I like my hand-welted boots too, but if there's a practical benefit day-to-day, I've not noticed it. I certainly wouldn't pick one boot over the other simply on whether it was welted or stitchdown.

 

[Jimk4003]

The way I understood, the double midsole is affectionately called the lineman's shank. For guys hanging from a pole all day who's feet are only standing on a thin metal rod, I suppose "normal" shoes will bend around that rod and your feet are gonna be ina great deal of pain. The double midsole prevents the shoes from molding around that rod, distributing the pressure more evenly around the zone of contact and giving you a stiffer, more stable shoe
Kyle from baker's 🥴🥵 (contain your orgasms boys) told me a lot of people who order a double are really disappointed afterwards. It's a stiffer heavier boot, and the break in is usually hellish. I'm guessing because they're not really meant to become flexible for the above reasons.

I think a lineman shank is a section of tapered leather forming a second midsole on the rear half of the boot, like this:

It gives the benefits you describe for standing up on poles, but still leaves the forefoot relatively flexible. A double midsole is just two full midsoles stacked together.

 

[Abe_Room]

I think a lineman shank is a section of tapered leather forming a second midsole on the rear half of the boot, like this:

View attachment 1798807

It gives the benefits you describe for standing up on poles, but still leaves the forefoot relatively flexible. A double midsole is just two full midsoles stacked together.

Goddamn I hadn't seen a boot with a tapered midsole like that. Shoulda done my research!
I guess the double adds insulation for toes from the ground in cold weather. A lineman still gets the benefit of added support, but the reduced flex is imo still a downside.

 

[Legal Eagles]

That leaves the question unanswered then, of what a double midsole is for though.

If you are working on crushed stone or rebar you will appreciate the double mid.
Some people want a heavier or stiffer boot, and some people just like the look...
And for some people, even the double is not enough... some men just want to watch the world burn...

 

[Abe_Room]

If you are working on crushed stone or rebar you will appreciate the double mid.
Some people want a heavier or stiffer boot, and some people just like the look...
And for some people, even the double is not enough... some men just want to watch the world burn...
View attachment 1798810

Some men just need that 1/2cm to get to 6ft for all those tinder matches.

I also wrote above that it could help with insulation. Not certain about it.

 

[hoppy_IPA]

If you use a shovel a lot, an extra thick midsole is the only way to go.

 

[Abe_Room]

If you use a shovel a lot, an extra thick midsole is the only way to go.

Good point. We could create a midsole FAQ or Pro/contra list at this point, save the next guy some time.

 

[Scooterputtputt]

Goddamn I hadn't seen a boot with a tapered midsole like that. Shoulda done my research!
I guess the double adds insulation for toes from the ground in cold weather. A lineman still gets the benefit of added support, but the reduced flex is imo still a downside.

Dad was a lineman. Grew up watching him climb and later collected all the cool gear he used. Seeing these boots of his and his obsession with taking care of them, led me ultimately to the PNW boots. I’ll climb poles and do arborist work using the 40/50 year old gear Occasionally. Quite fun.

 

[chicagoan2016]

It looks like double midsoles with half slips

 

[chicagoan2016]

What did Winston Churchill say about cigars “First you are attracted by its shape…..”
I couldn’t find a reference to this quote (@Jimk4003 )
May be double midsoles are like that, first you get it because you like the looks….

 

[chicagoan2016]

Well, things aren't exactly that simple. I think the rolled welt construction White's uses is certainly more robust than simple stitchdown. Importantly, that rolled welt protects where the stitching goes through the upper leather. With stitchdown, your upper basically *is* the "welt," so if you kick a lot of rocks or shovels or whatever and ding up that stitching area, you're gonna start reducing the viability of a resole by damaging the upper leather.

To be honest, I kind of don't understand where this cult of "stitchdown" came from in the first place, other than maybe Viberg fanboys? It's a super simple construction method compared to a welted shoe. It's not terrible or anything, but championing the construction method used by the likes of Clarks Desert Boots instead of something far more robust and labour-intensive seems misguided to me. Maybe the word just sounds cool?

Once again we find ourselves in agreement, my friend!
I think White’s’ competitors should realize resistance is futile when you are facing Baker’s/White’s collaboration.
It’s like one of the physical constants in the Universe (speed of light in vacuum, Planck constant, elementary charge etc).
You can try to change their values but you are gonna be disappointed!

 

[chicagoan2016]

If you are working on crushed stone or rebar you will appreciate the double mid.
Some people want a heavier or stiffer boot, and some people just like the look...
And for some people, even the double is not enough... some men just want to watch the world burn...
View attachment 1798810

If I may add to what you already said?
What’s life without double midsoles anyway?