Custom White's Boots ... Thoughts?

[ThatDudeOrion]

The problem with that is hiring someone to handmake boots is not like hiring someone to run the fryer at McDonald's it takes years to develop these skills... when you have a limited labor pool, and lower your hiring standards, you inevitably wind up with people in positions they are unqualified for, and quality suffers... it is truly a dilemma

We all want our boots fast, but we don't want the guy they hired last Monday building them...

It comes back to the truism, "Good, Fast, or Cheap... pick two..."

I am glad I am not in a labor intensive field like manufacturing... if I were buying handmade boots, I would be looking really closely at the QC on a 6 month lead time boot... it better be perfect!

not to be contrarian, but White's have never been cheap and they certainly aren't fast now, lol. better be good i guess!

 

[wordfool]

Learning to make boots allows you to, well, make boots. That's it. It doesn't equip you with skills that transfer into other industries, and it's not a gateway into doing anything else.

Attracting quality staff is hard enough in any manufacturing sector. Attracting quality staff into a discipline that doesn't present any career opportunities beyond a very narrow niche must be even harder.

broadly agree, although I’d add another thing to consider, which is skill vs craft. As you say, skills are usually transferable. A craft tends to be somewhat specific, although some more general aspects can be transferable. I’d consider boot making more of a craft.

another thing to consider is that over recent years there has been a relative proliferation of PNW and MTO boot makers in the US, which suggests there was either a large or growing pool of bookmakers (though we might also be at the stage of robbing Peter to pay Paul). Maybe the pandemic will change that in the medium term, positively or negatively. We shall see.

Meanwhile, White’s will probably continue to be White’s, churning out boots (albeit more slowly) with a high chance of QC issues, as they always have. I just hope I get my Fathers Day order before Thanksgiving without any major issues.

 

[chicagoan2016]

This video is from Nick's but very interesting since we frequently talk about QC. One of the comments mentioned "Fashion Logger" haha
QC expectations!

 

[Jimk4003]

This videos is from Nick's but very interesting since we frequently talk about QC. One of the comments mentioned "Fashion Logger" haha
QC expectations!

Ah, the 'fashion logger'. 'Lumber sexual' is my term of choice.

 

[chicagoan2016]

Ah, the 'fashion logger'. 'Lumber sexual' is my term of choice.

Nick's does have a model "Urban Logger" ?. For some reason I feel like Nick's boots have taller heels?

 

[Jimk4003]

Nick's does have a model "Urban Logger" ?.

Yeah, I think they knew who their market was going to be when they named that one. It's a bit like the White's/ Filson 'Fire Hybrid' that's simultaneously marketed as a fire boot, whilst carrying a disclaimer that it's not a fire boot. That still tickles me. I have to say though, I do quite like the look of the Urban Logger.

There's a bit of gatekeeping going on in the comments section of that Nick's YouTube clip, a few, 'real men who do proper work in their boots don't worry about such things' style comments, and I hate that bullshit. Anyone can spend their own money on anything they want, and anyone is entitled to have an opinion on the things they buy. Plus, $600 is $600, and there's a basic level of quality that's to be expected at that price, regardless of whether something is a 'work boot' or not. Particularly when, as we've noted, these companies are well aware of the 'fashion logger'/'lumber sexual' segment of their market, and are actively aiming products their way.

For some reason I feel like Nick's boots have taller heels?

I don't know if they're necessarily taller, and both Nick's and White's will let you add or remove heel lifts within reason. I think sometimes it's just a matter of proportion; the same height heel will look very different on a size 6 boot as it will on a size 14 boot, and we never really know what size the boot in the product shot is.

 

[chicagoan2016]

Yeah, I think they knew who their market was going to be when they named that one. It's a bit like the White's/ Filson 'Fire Hybrid' that's simultaneously marketed as a fire boot, whilst carrying a disclaimer that it's not a fire boot. That still tickles me. I have to say though, I do quite like the look of the Urban Logger.

There's a bit of gatekeeping going on in the comments section of that Nick's YouTube clip, a few, 'real men who do proper work in their boots don't worry about such things' style comments, and I hate that bullshit. Anyone can spend their own money on anything they want, and anyone is entitled to have an opinion on the things they buy. Plus, $600 is $600, and there's a basic level of quality that's to be expected at that price, regardless of whether something is a 'work boot' or not. Particularly when, as we've noted, these companies are well aware of the 'fashion logger'/'lumber sexual' segment of their market, and are actively aiming products their way.



I don't know if they're necessarily taller, and both Nick's and White's will let you add or remove heel lifts within reason. I think sometimes it's just a matter of proportion; the same height heel will look very different on a size 6 boot as it will on a size 14 boot, and we never really know what size the boot in the product shot is.

I do get the feeling that Nick's videos try to play down the QC issues. I don't own Nick's boots (or plan to own) but it's one of many things I don't like about that company.
Like fellow members (at least, one name I remember, @wordfool) of this thread have noted we develop a certain level of tolerance for QC from White's.

 

[Jimk4003]

I do get the feeling that Nick's videos try to play down the QC issues. I don't own Nick's boots (or plan to own) but it's one of many things I don't like about that company.

I dunno about that. I think making people aware of what to expect before taking any of their money is absolutely the right thing to do. If a company promises the earth and then tries to handwave away any shortcomings once they've already taken your cash, that's a problem. Making YouTube videos where you're honest about your own product, including areas where they aren't perfect, is doing the opposite; it shows a great deal of integrity, and lets people make an informed choice about your product.

I know you have an issue with Nick's, and I've read the things you've posted as to why, and as I've said before, I really don't see it. I don't own any Nick's, won't be buying any more boots anytime soon, and don't know anyone who works at Nick's, so I've got no dog in this one whatsoever. But I think Nick's are damned if they do, damned if they don't where you're concerned. You've formed your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I think you're just looking at everything they say and do and assuming the worst of intentions where there are none.

I'm not trying to change your mind, and as I said before, we all get to spend our own money however we like. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with Nick's wanting to make sure people spending money with them make an informed choice, unless you come into it with that preconception.

 

[chicagoan2016]

I dunno about that. I think making people aware of what to expect before taking any of their money is absolutely the right thing to do. If a company promises the earth and then tries to handwave away any shortcomings once they've already taken your cash, that's a problem. Making YouTube videos where you're honest about your own product, including areas where they aren't perfect, is doing the opposite; it shows a great deal of integrity, and lets people make an informed choice about your product.

You make a good point!
That's certainly a different perspective and it does make sense.

 

[theofficialhung]

Here are my 8" Nicks Ranger vs my 7" Whites Bounty Hunter. Both 55 last, both standard heel configuration. 3-4 leather stack Whites vs 5-6 for the Nick's it's a higher heel. Nicks makes a very high quality boot for the money - these chocolate rangers cost me $490 shipped regular price.

 

[wordfool]

I do get the feeling that Nick's videos try to play down the QC issues. I don't own Nick's boots (or plan to own) but it's one of many things I don't like about that company.
Like fellow members (at least, one name I remember, @wordfool) of this thread have noted we develop a certain level of tolerance for QC from White's.

yes, multiple pairs with QC issues eventually beat down one‘s expectations to what is probably a more realistic place

Anything “Handmade” is going to have imperfections, especially if the making involves a lot of huff, puff, and manhandling of tough materials. That said, I suspect PNW makers could do much better with QC during manufacture to catch problems before they get baked into the final product. I’m sure the likes of Trickers or Church‘s would not tolerate some of the output we’ve seen from White’s et al. And I’d not call the likes of Trickers “fashion” boots.

But, as has been said here many time before, it’s also a customer expectations thing and a “work boot” vs “smart boot” thing. Us fusspots here are probably not historically representative of the bulk of the PNW boot maker customer base, which doesn’t care about wonky stitching or toecaps as long as the boot holds up in the long term. The market is no doubt shifting, however, and as White‘s moves more into the “smart” boot realm with models like the Main Street, I wonder if they have a different manufacturing process that improves QC to reflect the different customer base? Whatever the case, I suspect the traditional markets for PNW boot makers are shrinking so embracing new customers with all their highfalutin expectations is probably a smart idea.

 

[klank74]

Got myself a new card holder/wallet to go along with my olive WF BH’s. I’ve had the BH’s for a few months now and I gotta say…I think the wallet will be broken in long before they are?

 

[Danitch]

I’m sure the likes of Trickers or Church‘s would not tolerate some of the output we’ve seen from White’s et al.

I would rather compare the comparable.
95% of Trickers shoes are made from ordinary thin leather, there are no really manual operations, everything is done on machines.
However, I constantly see lasting errors, part misalignments, curved welts, and so on.

 

[chicagoan2016]

I would rather compare the comparable.
95% of Trickers shoes are made from ordinary thin leather, there are no really manual operations, everything is done on machines.
However, I constantly see lasting errors, part misalignments, curved welts, and so on.

I enjoy reading this thread! constantly learn something new.
I still think White's offers the best deal! Hand stitched construction ( is rolled welt the proper term?), customizations, great customer service etc.

 

[Danitch]

I enjoy reading this thread! constantly learn something new.
I still think White's offers the best deal! Hand stitched construction ( is rolled welt the proper term?), customizations, great customer service etc.

In terms of hitting the dollar, this is undoubtedly one of the best deals.
White is the cheapest hand-welded shoes in the world, with the exception of Indonesia bootmakers. In addition, with a wide range of options and free MTO.