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Jimk4003

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White's and Baker's hire Americans so I am going to stick around : ) (nothing against any other country, I just prioritize my country, I am sure folks from other countries do the same).
@Rymanocerous and @Jimk4003 have confirmed that I am not wrong in assuming that arch support is helping my back (not to mention all muscles in my legs). Other than White's we have Nick's and Wesco. I know Nick's arch support is similar to White's
Not sure about Wesco??
I might order Nick's Urban Loggers in the future.
As far as Spokane based brands, there's White's, Nick's, Frank's and JK. They're all based on the same basic formula, so it's really just what works for you. If you're priority is keeping money in the US, it's worth remembering that Nick's, Frank's and JK are still independently owned US companies, whereas White's is owned by a Japanese conglomerate.

Wesco always seems to be more distinct relative to the Spokane brands. From a distance, I could probably mix up a pair of White's Smokejumpers and a pair of Nick's Hotshots, but a Wesco Firestormer looks distinctively 'Wesco'.

With regards to arch support, all the Spokane brands are based off the same basic template, so they'll all be pretty similar. I think I mentioned something about Wesco arch support before, but in short it's probably slightly less dramatic out of the box, but being built around a triple-ribbed curved steel shank, it'll keep its shape over time, and feels really solid. Wesco will also add an 'insole wrap' for $60, which is basically an additional arch piece similar to what White's and Nick's use. I've never tried it myself, but given Wesco arch support is already more pronounced that what you'd get in an off-the-shelf boot, I'd imagine by the time you added the insole wrap, the arch support would be significant.
 
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chicagoan2016

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As far as Spokane based brands, there's White's, Nick's, Frank's and JK. They're all based on the same basic formula, so it's really just what works for you. If you're priority is keeping money in the US, it's worth remembering that Nick's, Frank's and JK are still independently owned US companies, whereas White's is owned by a Japanese conglomerate.

Wesco always seems to be more distinct relative to the Spokane brands. From a distance, I could probably mix up a pair of White's Smokejumpers and a pair of Nick's Hotshots, but a Wesco Firestormer looks distinctively 'Wesco'.

With regards to arch support, all the Spokane brands are based off the same basic template, so they'll all be pretty similar. I think I mentioned something about Wesco arch support before, but it short it's probably slightly less dramatic out of the box, but being built around a triple-ribbed curved steel shank, it'll keep its shape over time, and feels really solid. Wesco will also add an 'insole wrap' for $60, which is basically an additional arch piece similar to what White's and Nick's use. I've never tried it myself, but given Wesco arch support is already more pronounced that what you'd get in an off-the-shelf boot, I'd imagine by the time you added the insole wrap, the arch support would be significant.
It's good to know we have a few options available. I don't know how is the QC at other Spokane based brands.
I will talk to Baker's about Wesco.
 

chicagoan2016

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@Vamp-ire My personal experience about fit is if my toes (and ball area) are not comfortable and feel 'squeezed', the shoes/boots are too tight and will not work for me.
 

Vamp-ire

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@Vamp-ire My personal experience about fit is if my toes (and ball area) are not comfortable and feel 'squeezed', the shoes/boots are too tight and will not work for me.
May be the case for the ball of my foot, toes are fine :( I'll hold onto these boots until I find another pair. Going to give them a test walk tomorrow.
 
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With regards to arch support, all the Spokane brands are based off the same basic template, so they'll all be pretty similar. I think I mentioned something about Wesco arch support before, but in short it's probably slightly less dramatic out of the box, but being built around a triple-ribbed curved steel shank, it'll keep its shape over time, and feels really solid. Wesco will also add an 'insole wrap' for $60, which is basically an additional arch piece similar to what White's and Nick's use. I've never tried it myself, but given Wesco arch support is already more pronounced that what you'd get in an off-the-shelf boot, I'd imagine by the time you added the insole wrap, the arch support would be significant.
Where can I find more about this insole wrap? My Google searches have shown only a return on an IronHeart UK based forum (https://www.ironheart.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=989.4125) but nothing else. Would love feedback from fellow customers who have experienced it.

I love my Wesco's, have another pair just recently put on order, and would love to have a 55 last style high arch support!
 
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wordfool

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I talked to Baker's (before I read your post) and they said they would fix the issue. I am not sure if the right boots needs to repaired, what do you recommend? Baker's were very kind to let me wear these boots until I get my British tan pair back, that way I will have footwear with arch support.

With your permissions I am going to use your checklist to develop a simple software for QC. I will talk to Baker's and if they want, I will provide them a copy (free, of course).
It's really a personal thing. If it were me I'd get it fixed regardless of whether it affected the fit because I'd hate to look at it every time I wore the boots. Having said that, it's also probably something that you'll quickly come to ignore.

Same goes for my QC checklist. The problem is that determining what degree of "fault" is too much is a very subjective thing. Someone on the fire lines halfway up a Californian mountain ankle deep in ash and mud is probably not really going to care about a few dodgy welt stitches or slightly wonky lasting in a hand-built boot, whereas fussy urban folks (like me) might care even if it has no adverse effect on the actual fit or performance. Baker's and White's are not going to know where on the imperfection-tolerance scale a customer falls. Hand built boots will never be perfect. But how close to perfect should we expect them to be?

It's been discussed here before about whether White's has yet to adapt to their changing customer base's expectations for build quality. I'm sure they'll get there eventually and until then we can be grateful that they have such good customer service.
 

chicagoan2016

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It's really a personal thing. If it were me I'd get it fixed regardless of whether it affected the fit because I'd hate to look at it every time I wore the boots. Having said that, it's also probably something that you'll quickly come to ignore.

Same goes for my QC checklist. The problem is that determining what degree of "fault" is too much is a very subjective thing. Someone on the fire lines halfway up a Californian mountain ankle deep in ash and mud is probably not really going to care about a few dodgy welt stitches or slightly wonky lasting in a hand-built boot, whereas fussy urban folks (like me) might care even if it has no adverse effect on the actual fit or performance. Baker's and White's are not going to know where on the imperfection-tolerance scale a customer falls. Hand built boots will never be perfect. But how close to perfect should we expect them to be?

It's been discussed here before about whether White's has yet to adapt to their changing customer base's expectations for build quality. I'm sure they'll get there eventually and until then we can be grateful that they have such good customer service.
Awesome response as always. I agree with everything you said. I would send this pair to get it repaired once I get the British tan BHs and I am going to stick with White's and Baker's, great folks to do business with.
I could use your advice in ordering some 'dressy' White's : ).
 

theofficialhung

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It's good to know we have a few options available. I don't know how is the QC at other Spokane based brands.
I will talk to Baker's about Wesco.
Wesco has high quality fit and finish, they are slightly more costly the options you get normally on whites get upcharge for Wesco (non-work leathers are upcharged, 2 tone leathers are upcharged etc). I think the extra money is worth it, i have a pair of Hendriks and been working on a Morrison build but indecisive between burgundy and charcoal domain leather.
 

chicagoan2016

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Wesco has high quality fit and finish, they are slightly more costly the options you get normally on whites get upcharge for Wesco (non-work leathers are upcharged, 2 tone leathers are upcharged etc). I think the extra money is worth it, i have a pair of Hendriks and been working on a Morrison build but indecisive between burgundy and charcoal domain leather.
How do you compare the arch support on Hendrik to that of Bounty Hunters etc.?
 

theofficialhung

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How do you compare the arch support on Hendrik to that of Bounty Hunters etc.?
They are pretty much equal imo. Both feel like you're standing on the edge of a ladder.

@theofficialhung

Not to get this thread off-topic, but what’s the domain leather like? Have also been considering a Hendrik.
My Hendriks are brown horsehide, I've never handled domain leather in hand. Comparing domain to chromexcel, both are similar in richness/depth of color but domain has a gray core while CXL is brown core which results in teacore patina as it ages. At least this is what I've read online.
 

Vamp-ire

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Well boys, I've come to the conclusion the Packers I got are too small a width, my feet are aching after wearing them for 4 hours. No pain while walking, but they certainly feel snug when walking. I'm going to hold onto them if I find a deal on something wider when I confirm my sizing with Bakers. I'm 100% a 9D or possibly a 9E. I might even fir a 9.5D or E, who knows, but I'm going to send my traces in to confirm.

I definitely want a pair of Packers in the future as they're incredibly comfortable outside the crampness, my feet feel awesome up until the ball.
 

chicagoan2016

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Well boys, I've come to the conclusion the Packers I got are too small a width, my feet are aching after wearing them for 4 hours. No pain while walking, but they certainly feel snug when walking. I'm going to hold onto them if I find a deal on something wider when I confirm my sizing with Bakers. I'm 100% a 9D or possibly a 9E. I might even fir a 9.5D or E, who knows, but I'm going to send my traces in to confirm.

I definitely want a pair of Packers in the future as they're incredibly comfortable outside the crampness, my feet feel awesome up until the ball.
I wonder if the packers you got are Whites or their Hawthorn line?
Could you possibly stretch them?
 

Vamp-ire

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I wonder if the packers you got are Whites or their Hawthorn line?
Could you possibly stretch them?
They're Whites 100% they'd be labeled as Hathorn's, not Whites :) Plus the leather isn't like Hathorns either.

I saw some old Whites with Red Dog leather and a boot logo, any idea of when those could be from?
 

Scooterputtputt

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Wesco has high quality fit and finish, they are slightly more costly the options you get normally on whites get upcharge for Wesco (non-work leathers are upcharged, 2 tone leathers are upcharged etc). I think the extra money is worth it, i have a pair of Hendriks and been working on a Morrison build but indecisive between burgundy and charcoal domain leather.
Those are two on my shortlist also. At least in pictures that burgundy domain looks incredible! Would love to hear what you decide on
 

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