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wordfool

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Unless you're adamant that you must have a pull loop and a plain cap-toe, or are desperate to have a boot with the Carryology logo embossed on it, isn't this just a Main Street with a fancy set of laces and fewer finish options?
Unlike the Main Street and Stevens it has a (fake) heel counter and a 430 sole. So a bit like Main Street meets Side Road.

But ultimately I don't really see the point of it. It just looks a bit too much like all the other slightly generic GYW boots out there, although the price is OK and I'm sure the Carryology Crowd will snap them up.
 
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Jimk4003

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Okay gentlemen! I have some good news. After all the knee pain since Monday I might have figured out the culprit and its not White's boots.
Like @Jimk4003 and other folks mentioned after wearing for more than a month my White's shouldn't cause any pain. I am pretty sure that after walking in White's for several miles my "gait" adapted to the arch support, weight and all the cool stuff White's boots offer so when I was wearing Allen Edmonds boots (with no arch support)on Monday I most probably tried to walk like I was wearing White's lol and cause myself some discomfort. To test my theory I was in the office for a few hours today and I wore my BHs. I went to a store, walked around in the office etc and I didn't feel that "certain" knee pain, although I do have soreness from Monday.
So if my analysis is correct it's bye-bye time for all the "other" shoes/boots that I own :).

Edit : So the total time I had the boots on, was almost seven hours including climbing a flight of stairs. They are getting very comfortable. I still have some pain in my knees which I think is from wearing AEs on Monday.
To sum up, these BHs are now ready to be worn all day in the "office".
It's good that you've managed a bit more in the boots, so that's a step in the right direction.

All footwear will actually change your gait slightly; you'll walk slightly differently in a shoe with a heel than you will in a flat-soled shoe, and you'll walk slightly differently in a boot with lots of arch support than you will in a shoe that has none. That's perfectly normal.

A healthy gait should be able to accommodate different footwear fairly naturally though, and whilst good footwear can help address minor issues with your gait, it shouldn't change to such an extent that a pair of shoes that didn't hurt previously suddenly becomes painful to wear. If your existing Allen Edmunds didn't hurt before, but they do since you bought another pair of boots, then that's a symptom of something, and not a cause.

Lot's of people will tell you that wearing other boots doesn't feel the same once you get a pair of White's. But that's because the White's are so comfortable in comparison; not because the White's have screwed with their gait to such an extent that anything else becomes unwearable.

What if you get invited to a wedding and have to wear formal shoes? Or need a pair of running shoes? Or take up a hobby that requires particular footwear that White's don't offer? You don't want any future life choices you make to be dictated by the footwear you can or can't wear, or have to deal with a whole bunch of pain and inflammation because you're now only able to wear one brand of footwear. Particularly when that wasn't previously an issue.

To be honest, the few days between when you noticed the pain in your knee and today isn't actually much time to develop a good hypothesis, and hopefully you're wrong (in a good way), and it's just that your boots are taking a long time to break-in. I know people say things like, 'you don't break White's in, they break you in'; but that's really just hyperbole to express the toughness of the boots. You don't actually want any footwear to cause musculoskeletal changes to the point where you're unable to wear anything else.

Wanting to wear White's because nothing else feels as comfortable? That's a good thing. Needing to wear White's because your natural gait has been so heavily affected by wearing them that the footwear you wore previously now causes pain and inflammation when it didn't before? That's not good.

Like I say, hopefully your hypothesis isn't quite right, and it's just that the boots are taking a really long time to break-in.
 

Rymanocerous

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Could you order Stevens in 55 last?
Well its on their 5050 last so yeah, it has the Arch ease ie. 55 last arch.

lol at their waterproof sales pitch. the pics they show are a cvnt hair away from a soaking wet pair of socks
"Custom spec, ankle height gusseted tongue. Because no matter how well the boot is made, if it uses a traditional tongue, water will just go right around the sides. So we went with a half gusset, making the boot comfortable and easy to take on/off, while allowing you to stay 100% dry while ankle-deep in water."

Wait, no one else does this with their boots??
 

Rymanocerous

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It's good that you've managed a bit more in the boots, so that's a step in the right direction.

All footwear will actually change your gait slightly; you'll walk slightly differently in a shoe with a heel than you will in a flat-soled shoe, and you'll walk slightly differently in a boot with lots of arch support than you will in a shoe that has none. That's perfectly normal.

A healthy gait should be able to accommodate different footwear fairly naturally though, and whilst good footwear can help address minor issues with your gait, it shouldn't change to such an extent that a pair of shoes that didn't hurt previously suddenly becomes painful to wear. If your existing Allen Edmunds didn't hurt before, but they do since you bought another pair of boots, then that's a symptom of something, and not a cause.

Lot's of people will tell you that wearing other boots doesn't feel the same once you get a pair of White's. But that's because the White's are so comfortable in comparison; not because the White's have screwed with their gait to such an extent that anything else becomes unwearable.

What if you get invited to a wedding and have to wear formal shoes? Or need a pair of running shoes? Or take up a hobby that requires particular footwear that White's don't offer? You don't want any future life choices you make to be dictated by the footwear you can or can't wear, or have to deal with a whole bunch of pain and inflammation because you're now only able to wear one brand of footwear. Particularly when that wasn't previously an issue.

To be honest, the few days between when you noticed the pain in your knee and today isn't actually much time to develop a good hypothesis, and hopefully you're wrong (in a good way), and it's just that your boots are taking a long time to break-in. I know people say things like, 'you don't break White's in, they break you in'; but that's really just hyperbole to express the toughness of the boots. You don't actually want any footwear to cause musculoskeletal changes to the point where you're unable to wear anything else.

Wanting to wear White's because nothing else feels as comfortable? That's a good thing. Needing to wear White's because your natural gait has been so heavily affected by wearing them that the footwear you wore previously now causes pain and inflammation when it didn't before? That's not good.

Like I say, hopefully your hypothesis isn't quite right, and it's just that the boots are taking a really long time to break-in.
I think your premise is slightly off here. At the end of the day, we often under appreciate how much our feet play into our feeling of total body health. When start wearing supportive footwear, you benefit from that. Its better for your feet. You legs and knees adjust and so on and so on. When you then go back to something with little to no support, you can get aches through joints, and parts of your foot. You body has to readjust to incorporate those stabilizers it wasn't using in your supportive footwear. It's like any other muscle or stability training.
 

Jimk4003

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I think your premise is slightly off here. At the end of the day, we often under appreciate how much our feet play into our feeling of total body health. When start wearing supportive footwear, you benefit from that. Its better for your feet. You legs and knees adjust and so on and so on. When you then go back to something with little to no support, you can get aches through joints, and parts of your foot. You body has to readjust to incorporate those stabilizers it wasn't using in your supportive footwear. It's like any other muscle or stability training.
Absolutely, and that's what I meant when I said the pain being felt when wearing the Allen Edmunds was a symptom, and not a cause.
 

iamntbatman

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A Russian guy on reddit bought himself a pair of SD's. I dunno if he's a shoemaker or what, but his comments about the construction were very detailed, and his photo album included the most accurate sketch I've yet seen of White's construction (though it sounds like they don't really use cork filler at all anymore, so that's also leather).
whitesconstruction.jpg
 
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chicagoan2016

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Thank you @Jimk4003 and @Rymanocerous
After wearing the White's boots and a good night sleep, my knee pain has gone almost 40- 50% by now, hope it goes away completely.
@Jimk4003 You make a good point about formal occasions where White's boots might not be appropriate to wear and I have been thinking about the same. I have used insoles in the past to a limited success (comfort). Lately I have been thinking if I could pull White's Stevens or pointed toe packers (6 inches) in dress leather as formal shoes/boots.
I can 'get rid' of my AE collections of boots and invest in more pairs of White's.

Edit : @Rymanocerous I might be imagining this but I think these boots are helping with posture and I feel like my back in getting stronger, I am definitely going to have some calf muscles lol.
 
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chicagoan2016

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Gentleman, to make White's boots formal what hardware should be picked with black dress and brown dress leather?
Thanks
 

Rymanocerous

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Thank you @Jimk4003 and @Rymanocerous
After wearing the White's boots and a good night sleep, my knee pain has gone almost 40- 50% by now, hope it goes away completely.
@Jimk4003 You make a good point about formal occasions where White's boots might not be appropriate to wear and I have been thinking about the same. I have used insoles in the past to a limited success (comfort). Lately I have been thinking if I could pull White's Stevens or pointed toe packers (6 inches) in dress leather as formal shoes/boots.
I can 'get rid' of my AE collections of boots and invest in more pairs of White's.

Edit : @Rymanocerous I might be imagining this but I think these boots are helping with posture and I feel like my back in getting stronger, I am definitely going to have some calf muscles lol.
Youre not imagining. As someone with a blown out back, having a solid heel and good arch support has helped tremendously. I also have bad knees and I experienced the same as you are going through now in regards to knee pain after strapping in a 3lbs+ boot to each leg. It took a month or two to acclimate and then went away. Rotational mass accounts for a lot more weight than people consider.
 

chicagoan2016

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I feel bad for flooding this thread but while sitting in the office I noticed that uppers on my left boot are not aligned. I have been wearing these for over a month and this is the first time I paid attention
20210415_154234.jpg
 

Scooterputtputt

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Youre not imagining. As someone with a blown out back, having a solid heel and good arch support has helped tremendously. I also have bad knees and I experienced the same as you are going through now in regards to knee pain after strapping in a 3lbs+ boot to each leg. It took a month or two to acclimate and then went away. Rotational mass accounts for a lot more weight than people consider.
A year ago had a knee replaced and was very very worried if the days of wearing that type of boot was over. It’s not. Was tough coming back from it I believe they help my knees as well as eliminated hip pain. As said you build yourself up to longer and harder excursions
 

PACostag

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I feel bad for flooding this thread but while sitting in the office I noticed that uppers on my left boot are not aligned. I have been wearing these for over a month and this is the first time I paid attention
View attachment 1593920
This looks about right unfortunately... Don't even think about checking if the uppers are aligned along the vertical plane...
 

Jimk4003

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Thank you @Jimk4003 and @Rymanocerous
After wearing the White's boots and a good night sleep, my knee pain has gone almost 40- 50% by now, hope it goes away completely.
@Jimk4003 You make a good point about formal occasions where White's boots might not be appropriate to wear and I have been thinking about the same. I have used insoles in the past to a limited success (comfort). Lately I have been thinking if I could pull White's Stevens or pointed toe packers (6 inches) in dress leather as formal shoes/boots.
I can 'get rid' of my AE collections of boots and invest in more pairs of White's.

Edit : @Rymanocerous I might be imagining this but I think these boots are helping with posture and I feel like my back in getting stronger, I am definitely going to have some calf muscles lol.
Absolutely, you're not imagining it. I used to suffer from regular back spasms brought on by a combination of lots of driving for work, poor posture, and a slight congenital anomaly with the vertebrae up near my shoulder blades. Since taking footwear a bit more seriously, my posture is a lot better (I won't lie, I still hunch and slouch too much) and back spasms are far less common. It's a definite benefit of well made, properly fitting boots.

I feel bad for flooding this thread but while sitting in the office I noticed that uppers on my left boot are not aligned. I have been wearing these for over a month and this is the first time I paid attention
View attachment 1593920
Um...yeah. That's poor, and the topic of White's QC comes up again.

I think you can look at this in one of two ways:

The first way you can rationalise this is by remembering that you've owned these boots for over a month, and have just noticed the issue now .

The other way you could look at this is to think, "I've just paid $600 for these boots, and they couldn't even sew the shafts on straight". And now you've noticed it, of course, you won't unsee it.

I know White's QC takes a whipping from time-to-time, but with good reason. Just like with your other pair that arrived with a tear in them, there are certain things that are just table stakes, even in cheaper boots. Just like no boot should turn up with a rip in the leather, boots shouldn't be built crooked, regardless of price. Full stop.

If you bought a factory-seconds pair of Thorogoods, or Red Wings, or Wolverines, or Thursdays, and saw that, you'd immediately think, "ah, I think I've found why these were seconds". If a factory-firsts pair from any of those cheaper brands came looking like that, you could get them replaced under warranty. It's knucklehead stuff at any price point, let alone what White's charge.

That PNW boots aren't going to be the most neatly finished is well known, and it's par for the course. But making symmetrical boots where everything is at least sewn together in the right place is something so fundamental, no-one has a reason not to get it right.

Those are my thoughts. You didn't noticed it for a month, so there's that. But you've noticed it now, and those facings are off by about 3/4" and none of the eyelets line up as a result. That'd be poor on a boot at a far cheaper price point.
 

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