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wordfool

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Yeah, it’s tough to decide with all the options. In the end, I followed some of Legal Eagles advice, kept it simple, and went with SD’s in brown dress, with toe caps. I requested the MP style toe cap stitching ( 4 rows) and khaki stitching throughout just to add a little something extra to the look of them. It was good advice. They’re nothing too crazy, go with most anything I wear, and it’s not something I’ll ever get sick of.... I’ll probably have this pair the rest of my life.
Yes, I tend to keep things simple, too. Much as I love how the Brown Bison + Black Bullhide + medallion toecap boots look, I know they're not really my style and I'd probably end up feeling too self conscious to wear them. All my White's tend to be relatively plain, mostly without toe caps, in leathers that go with pretty much everything. To my eye the beauty is in the build, form, and function, not the fancy accoutrements. Or, as my partner likes to say, I like to "blend in to the background" :cool:

Actually she's the one who like flashy and splashy. The only pair of White's she saw and liked was some 10" SJ build with double midsoles in some sort of red leather with contrasting toe caps. One day I'll convince her to get sized and buy a pair.
 

chicagoan2016

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TBH a medallion/dress toecap on a boot as chunky as a SJ/BH is arguably a bit out of place, but that's kinda the point IMO -- a deliberate juxtaposition making a statement that you're a gentleman with aspirations of getting your hands dirty... or vice versa :D Throw in a fancy leather like bison and a 100 lug sole and you're doubling down on that statement to confuse the world even more.

Yes, I tend to keep things simple, too. Much as I love how the Brown Bison + Black Bullhide + medallion toecap boots look, I know they're not really my style and I'd probably end up feeling too self conscious to wear them. All my White's tend to be relatively plain, mostly without toe caps, in leathers that go with pretty much everything. To my eye the beauty is in the build, form, and function, not the fancy accoutrements. Or, as my partner likes to say, I like to "blend in to the background" :cool:

Actually she's the one who like flashy and splashy. The only pair of White's she saw and liked was some 10" SJ build with double midsoles in some sort of red leather with contrasting toe caps. One day I'll convince her to get sized and buy a pair.
I remember your response when I shared a picture of White's boots in bison a couple months ago : )
 
Last edited:

Luscombe

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I should know this but I want to ask you fellers anyway.

What is the difference between the SD and the BH with SD last. I know that the BH has exterior heel counters and it could be 6" high vs 5" for the SD. Are there any other differences especially in how the two fit?

The reason I am asking is the result of too much time on this forum looking and thinking about my next build.

I have (2) pairs of Whites now, MP's 10B HH and SD's 10C recrafted to 10B in BD.

The MP's fit perfect. They are 1-1/2yrs old and just hug my feet, no heel slip, great sublime feeling, just no arch support.

The SD's fit fine in the front but are not really snug in the heel. The recraft did not change change the heel width.

I do have a 3rd pair on order, SD's 10B HH, med cap, and dbl leather sole AKA LE Build. I am trusting it will fit even better than my MP's.

However, I prefer the look of the exterior heel counter but don't really have a need for a boot. I do want an arch support. The Stevens might work but it has an internal heel counter. The SD's have an internal heel counter.

The Bounty Hunters have an external heel counter and I was thinking that in a 6" shaft so they would not be that much different from the SD's.

Can one of you fine gentlemen confirm the BH (SD Last) vs SD (SD Last) differences for me?
Thanks
 

js0930

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I should know this but I want to ask you fellers anyway.

What is the difference between the SD and the BH with SD last. I know that the BH has exterior heel counters and it could be 6" high vs 5" for the SD. Are there any other differences especially in how the two fit?

The reason I am asking is the result of too much time on this forum looking and thinking about my next build.

I have (2) pairs of Whites now, MP's 10B HH and SD's 10C recrafted to 10B in BD.

The MP's fit perfect. They are 1-1/2yrs old and just hug my feet, no heel slip, great sublime feeling, just no arch support.

The SD's fit fine in the front but are not really snug in the heel. The recraft did not change change the heel width.

I do have a 3rd pair on order, SD's 10B HH, med cap, and dbl leather sole AKA LE Build. I am trusting it will fit even better than my MP's.

However, I prefer the look of the exterior heel counter but don't really have a need for a boot. I do want an arch support. The Stevens might work but it has an internal heel counter. The SD's have an internal heel counter.

The Bounty Hunters have an external heel counter and I was thinking that in a 6" shaft so they would not be that much different from the SD's.

Can one of you fine gentlemen confirm the BH (SD Last) vs SD (SD Last) differences for me?
Thanks
Semi-dress has no external heel counter and only comes in 5” height. Bounty Hunter fits exactly the same, has a heel counter (which adds to durability/longevity to some extent) and comes in 6-10” height. I believe that’s it.
 

klank74

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I should know this but I want to ask you fellers anyway.

What is the difference between the SD and the BH with SD last. I know that the BH has exterior heel counters and it could be 6" high vs 5" for the SD. Are there any other differences especially in how the two fit?

The reason I am asking is the result of too much time on this forum looking and thinking about my next build.

I have (2) pairs of Whites now, MP's 10B HH and SD's 10C recrafted to 10B in BD.

The MP's fit perfect. They are 1-1/2yrs old and just hug my feet, no heel slip, great sublime feeling, just no arch support.

The SD's fit fine in the front but are not really snug in the heel. The recraft did not change change the heel width.

I do have a 3rd pair on order, SD's 10B HH, med cap, and dbl leather sole AKA LE Build. I am trusting it will fit even better than my MP's.

However, I prefer the look of the exterior heel counter but don't really have a need for a boot. I do want an arch support. The Stevens might work but it has an internal heel counter. The SD's have an internal heel counter.

The Bounty Hunters have an external heel counter and I was thinking that in a 6" shaft so they would not be that much different from the SD's.

Can one of you fine gentlemen confirm the BH (SD Last) vs SD (SD Last) differences for me?
Thanks
SD’s are built on the 55 last and have an internal heel counter. BH’s basically a smoke jumper on the 55 last instead of the 4811 and have an external heel counter.
If your current SD’s fit great everywhere but in the heel, you can have your new ones built with a heel 1 width narrower. So if you ordered a 10B, you should be able to have them built with an A heel. I had this done on my SJ’s I have on order as my SD’s fit perfect, but have just the slightest bit of heel slip unless I really crank down on the laces. It’s a $50 uncharge.
 

wordfool

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I should know this but I want to ask you fellers anyway.

What is the difference between the SD and the BH with SD last. I know that the BH has exterior heel counters and it could be 6" high vs 5" for the SD. Are there any other differences especially in how the two fit?

The reason I am asking is the result of too much time on this forum looking and thinking about my next build.

I have (2) pairs of Whites now, MP's 10B HH and SD's 10C recrafted to 10B in BD.

The MP's fit perfect. They are 1-1/2yrs old and just hug my feet, no heel slip, great sublime feeling, just no arch support.

The SD's fit fine in the front but are not really snug in the heel. The recraft did not change change the heel width.

I do have a 3rd pair on order, SD's 10B HH, med cap, and dbl leather sole AKA LE Build. I am trusting it will fit even better than my MP's.

However, I prefer the look of the exterior heel counter but don't really have a need for a boot. I do want an arch support. The Stevens might work but it has an internal heel counter. The SD's have an internal heel counter.

The Bounty Hunters have an external heel counter and I was thinking that in a 6" shaft so they would not be that much different from the SD's.

Can one of you fine gentlemen confirm the BH (SD Last) vs SD (SD Last) differences for me?
Thanks
I find my 6" BHs fit ever so slightly better in the heel than my SDs, probably because of the slightly taller shaft and the thicker (folded) tongue. However, it could simply be down to normal variation in build that coincidentally improved the BHs so take my experience with a grain of salt.

I'm surprised your MPs fit better in the heel because that last is supposed to be wider in the heel than the 55. It could simply be that proper break-in has helped, as it likely will with my SDs according to Kyle.
 

chicagoan2016

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SD’s are built on the 55 last and have an internal heel counter. BH’s basically a smoke jumper on the 55 last instead of the 4811 and have an external heel counter.
If your current SD’s fit great everywhere but in the heel, you can have your new ones built with a heel 1 width narrower. So if you ordered a 10B, you should be able to have them built with an A heel. I had this done on my SJ’s I have on order as my SD’s fit perfect, but have just the slightest bit of heel slip unless I really crank down on the laces. It’s a $50 uncharge.
I had to order that on my BHs.
 

Luscombe

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SD’s are built on the 55 last and have an internal heel counter. BH’s basically a smoke jumper on the 55 last instead of the 4811 and have an external heel counter.
If your current SD’s fit great everywhere but in the heel, you can have your new ones built with a heel 1 width narrower. So if you ordered a 10B, you should be able to have them built with an A heel. I had this done on my SJ’s I have on order as my SD’s fit perfect, but have just the slightest bit of heel slip unless I really crank down on the laces. It’s a $50 uncharge.
I think the problem with the heel on my SD's is that they were originally a C width. When they recrafted the shoe to a B width, they did not recraft the heel area. Had I know that the recraft did not include the heel, I would have passed.

Given what everyone has said about the BH vs SD, I will order a BH.
I am going to wait until I get my new SD's and get them broken in before I do anything.
 

chicagoan2016

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I think the problem with the heel on my SD's is that they were originally a C width. When they recrafted the shoe to a B width, they did not recraft the heel area. Had I know that the recraft did not include the heel, I would have passed.

Given what everyone has said about the BH vs SD, I will order a BH.
I am going to wait until I get my new SD's and get them broken in before I do anything.
Some folks have mentioned heel clamps that's done by White's.
I have also read about heel grips.
 

klank74

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I think the problem with the heel on my SD's is that they were originally a C width. When they recrafted the shoe to a B width, they did not recraft the heel area. Had I know that the recraft did not include the heel, I would have passed.

Given what everyone has said about the BH vs SD, I will order a BH.
I am going to wait until I get my new SD's and get them broken in before I do anything.
If you had them rebuilt and requested they be changed to a B width, then the heel should be a B width. When they rebuild them, they “relast” them.... meaning they are rebuilt around what ever last you requested. Could just be variation in the lasting process. You could order 2 pairs of identical boots, same size and width, and they could both fit ever so slightly differently. Especially if they’re built by two different people.
 

Luscombe

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If you had them rebuilt and requested they be changed to a B width, then the heel should be a B width. When they rebuild them, they “relast” them.... meaning they are rebuilt around what ever last you requested.
That is what I thought but I do not think it happened. I ordered a recraft with a new Dark Brown Calf heel stay and medallion toe cap. About 8 weeks into the order I emailed Bakers to get an update. Couple days later I get an email saying Whites could not do the heel stay. They did not say why. About 6 weeks go by and I email them again and this time I was told they just got the shoes and there was a problem with the toe cap. Whites put a plain one on instead of the medallion. About 6 weeks later my shoes show up. The stitching is horrible and there is definitely an issue where the new vamp was sewn to the existing leather on one of the shoes. The cobbler struggled with something.

After getting the shoes, I was completely underwhelmed with the quality, the time it took to get them recrafted, over 5 months, and the service. In addition, I did not know exactly what to expect with a recraft, especially in the heel. When I placed the order, I was told they would resize the whole shoe. I am pretty sure it was not done correctly but do not have enough experience with Whites to know. The hassle of shipping them back and forth, not knowing what to expect and not being able to be face to face and discuss the issues was more than I wanted to deal with. At this point I am on the fence with Bakers/Whites and will see how the SD's turn out. These are pretty expensive boots to have to deal with this kind of quality and service.
 

chicagoan2016

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That is what I thought but I do not think it happened. I ordered a recraft with a new Dark Brown Calf heel stay and medallion toe cap. About 8 weeks into the order I emailed Bakers to get an update. Couple days later I get an email saying Whites could not do the heel stay. They did not say why. About 6 weeks go by and I email them again and this time I was told they just got the shoes and there was a problem with the toe cap. Whites put a plain one on instead of the medallion. About 6 weeks later my shoes show up. The stitching is horrible and there is definitely an issue where the new vamp was sewn to the existing leather on one of the shoes. The cobbler struggled with something.

After getting the shoes, I was completely underwhelmed with the quality, the time it took to get them recrafted, over 5 months, and the service. In addition, I did not know exactly what to expect with a recraft, especially in the heel. When I placed the order, I was told they would resize the whole shoe. I am pretty sure it was not done correctly but do not have enough experience with Whites to know. The hassle of shipping them back and forth, not knowing what to expect and not being able to be face to face and discuss the issues was more than I wanted to deal with. At this point I am on the fence with Bakers/Whites and will see how the SD's turn out. These are pretty expensive boots to have to deal with this kind of quality and service.
How are your MPs quality wise?
 

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