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Patek

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So, I sent Bakers an email to follow up on my HH order from April.

Kyle game me a call back. Its seems that they received my boots the first time and they were "wrong". Not sure what that means or what was wrong with them. They were re-made and the second pair was also wrong. Those were also returned but somehow the order to rebuild them the third time never went through.

I'm glad that Bakers is dealing with it and not me having to fight it out with White's. Kyle did send me a gift card for my wait. However, you have to wonder what is going on at White's. You would think that slowing down and getting it right the first time would not only save them money but also reduce their lead time and increase customer satisfaction. I used to be in automotive manufacturing and I can say with 100% certainty that it is better and cheaper to build quality in than inspect it out.

My first pair that I ordered came in perfectly and the quality and stitching was top notch. I guess it depends on who is making the specific boot. Either way, I want a company like White's to be able to stay in business but rebuilding a boot three times is not a formula for financial success.

I will also say that I did not request anything crazy or off menu. My build was actually pretty simple. I did ask to do a perforated toe cap after the fact but I was told I couldn't change the order.

White: Brown Horse Hide Hardware: Antique Eyes & Hooks Celastic Toe Box: Single Celastic Toe Edge: Brown
Heel Base: Standard
Heel Lifts: Standard
Height: 8"
Lace Design: Plain Toe
Last: Semi Dress (Bounty Hunter) Leather Half Slip: No thanks Leather Laces: Yes Please [ $6.00 ] Leather Liner: Cream Lineman/Side Patch: No Thanks Midsole: Single
Pull Loops: Leather Pull Loops [ $15.00 ] Sole: Vibram 430 Mini Vib
Sole Trim: Standard Trim (Double Row Stitch) Toe Cap: Vintage 4-row Toe Cap [ $45.00 ] Logos / Embossing: No logos or Embossing Top: Cut Top (standard)
Size - Length: 11.5
Size - Width: D (medium)
 

gte872h

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So, I sent Bakers an email to follow up on my HH order from April.

Kyle game me a call back. Its seems that they received my boots the first time and they were "wrong". Not sure what that means or what was wrong with them. They were re-made and the second pair was also wrong. Those were also returned but somehow the order to rebuild them the third time never went through.

I'm glad that Bakers is dealing with it and not me having to fight it out with White's. Kyle did send me a gift card for my wait. However, you have to wonder what is going on at White's. You would think that slowing down and getting it right the first time would not only save them money but also reduce their lead time and increase customer satisfaction. I used to be in automotive manufacturing and I can say with 100% certainty that it is better and cheaper to build quality in than inspect it out.

My first pair that I ordered came in perfectly and the quality and stitching was top notch. I guess it depends on who is making the specific boot. Either way, I want a company like White's to be able to stay in business but rebuilding a boot three times is not a formula for financial success.

I will also say that I did not request anything crazy or off menu. My build was actually pretty simple. I did ask to do a perforated toe cap after the fact but I was told I couldn't change the order.

White: Brown Horse Hide Hardware: Antique Eyes & Hooks Celastic Toe Box: Single Celastic Toe Edge: Brown
Heel Base: Standard
Heel Lifts: Standard
Height: 8"
Lace Design: Plain Toe
Last: Semi Dress (Bounty Hunter) Leather Half Slip: No thanks Leather Laces: Yes Please [ $6.00 ] Leather Liner: Cream Lineman/Side Patch: No Thanks Midsole: Single
Pull Loops: Leather Pull Loops [ $15.00 ] Sole: Vibram 430 Mini Vib
Sole Trim: Standard Trim (Double Row Stitch) Toe Cap: Vintage 4-row Toe Cap [ $45.00 ] Logos / Embossing: No logos or Embossing Top: Cut Top (standard)
Size - Length: 11.5
Size - Width: D (medium)
Sorry to hear that. I’m sure it’s pretty rare for two boots in a row to be wrong. At least Kyle is being helpful and offering a gift card. Great makeup. Sounds about right up my alley!
 

CaptMorgan223

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Brown oil tan = Brown smooth

In my mind, it sits directly below dress brown as the most underappreciated of the many leather choices. Well... maybe red dog too but I digress....
thanks for clearing that up. Sounds like that'd be a nice choice.
 

klank74

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Yeah, I think the lack of arch support plus being 1/2 size too large in Iron Rangers was my downfall. I've struggled with the heel pain for almost a year now and it's finally starting to heal. I knew then I should try custom ( or by custom I mean fit sheet plus probably split sizing). My right foot is wider in toe box by at least a whole width but my feet have narrow heels and moderate arch. So im assuming 55 last is best bet compared to MP.

As far as leathers go I liked dress brown but don't like how black it appears.
I fear the CXL grain lottery but British Tan might be worth risk,
Cinnamon waxed flesh is a favorite of mine because it has some texture and wears hard.

Yeah on my Iron Rangers the smaller pair 8.5D was slightly too short on my right foot and pinkie toe would rub into cap toe but when I went up to 9Ds the heel issues started and I was in a world of shit.
So I have some concerns about picking right toe box.
You may not wanna hear it, but wide toe box, moderate arch, and narrow heels sounds sounds like a perfect candidate for the 38 swing last.😄 But, it might not be Narrow heels, could also be that you’re not able to get the instep tight enough to lock your feet down, that’s causing the heel slip. If that’s the case, You could go with the 55 last and have an instep adjustment done
 

CaptMorgan223

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You may not wanna hear it, but wide toe box, moderate arch, and narrow heels sounds sounds like a perfect candidate for the 38 swing last.😄 But, it might not be Narrow heels, could also be that you’re not able to get the instep tight enough to lock your feet down, that’s causing the heel slip. If that’s the case, You could go with the 55 last and have an instep adjustment done
haha I appreciate the suggestion. But I'm not the biggest fan of 38 swing last. I've seen too many crazy Japanese builds.

High probability for instep adjusted 55 last is my guess
 

klank74

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haha I appreciate the suggestion. But I'm not the biggest fan of 38 swing last. I've seen too many crazy Japanese builds.

High probability for instep adjusted 55 last is my guess
that’s why I said you probably don’t wanna hear it😂 I’m one of the weirdos that kinda likes the look of it, but in my opinion, it needs to have a toe cap to look good.
 

barbellhacks

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Leather: Cinnamon Waxed Flesh? British Tan CXL ( beware CXL Lottery)? or even Brown Horsehide on the higher end
Not sure how helpful this is, but here are my brown horsehide BH (no celastic) and cinnamon waxed flesh MPs (celastic). Both are 15ish months old with heavy wear in about the most f'ing inhospitable environment in CONUS...why do I live here. somewhat rural Rocky Mountains.


I love both leathers (like weirdly obsessive). You can't go wrong. Waxed flesh and cxl will show the history of every little ding and scratch. HH seems to have shallow pigmentation (presumably because of the very tight grain?), but it is ridiculously abrasion resistant and will shine like crazy if you're weirdly OCD like @Legal Eagles into that.

I would have little concern about CXL lottery. IME, White's has the best clicking in the industry (good clicking certainly biases lottery odds in your favor). But I wouldn't get CXL on my first White's boot. It just gets beat to hell in a way that's not all that aesthetically pleasing (in contrast to waxed flesh, which looks pretty nice ravaged).

See: Viberg service boot in CXL.

I like soft toe on the 55 last and celastic on MP (but I high high volume feet that (I think) prevent the weird sagging you sometimes see in soft toe make-ups
 

tocohillsguy

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What leather is this? Looks very nice
British Tan which I presume to be CXL. It's quite soft and pliable, and has that distinctive new leather smell. The seller claimed to have worn them only about 10 times albeit in rough terrain while camping. Not sure about the accuracy of the representations, but perhaps when he wears boots he walks more than I do and is generally harder on them than I am. CXL is known to stretch quite a bit, but I'm not sure if folks are referencing only the unlined areas or if it extends to the entire boot including the lined areas. I have some lined Alden CXL chukkas, and I haven't experienced much stretch, but I can see how the unlined areas of these White's would be easy to stretch. I can see why some are hesitant to use it as a field boot. It is prone to staining. Maybe that can be prevented with some water proof treatment? However, there is no getting around that it is a soft leather that is relatively easy to nick and scratch, so be prepared for some "character" and patina.

If you want to see how they looked upon arrival....

 
Last edited:

wordfool

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So, I sent Bakers an email to follow up on my HH order from April.

Kyle game me a call back. Its seems that they received my boots the first time and they were "wrong". Not sure what that means or what was wrong with them. They were re-made and the second pair was also wrong. Those were also returned but somehow the order to rebuild them the third time never went through.

I'm glad that Bakers is dealing with it and not me having to fight it out with White's. Kyle did send me a gift card for my wait. However, you have to wonder what is going on at White's. You would think that slowing down and getting it right the first time would not only save them money but also reduce their lead time and increase customer satisfaction. I used to be in automotive manufacturing and I can say with 100% certainty that it is better and cheaper to build quality in than inspect it out.

My first pair that I ordered came in perfectly and the quality and stitching was top notch. I guess it depends on who is making the specific boot. Either way, I want a company like White's to be able to stay in business but rebuilding a boot three times is not a formula for financial success.

I will also say that I did not request anything crazy or off menu. My build was actually pretty simple. I did ask to do a perforated toe cap after the fact but I was told I couldn't change the order.

White: Brown Horse Hide Hardware: Antique Eyes & Hooks Celastic Toe Box: Single Celastic Toe Edge: Brown
Heel Base: Standard
Heel Lifts: Standard
Height: 8"
Lace Design: Plain Toe
Last: Semi Dress (Bounty Hunter) Leather Half Slip: No thanks Leather Laces: Yes Please [ $6.00 ] Leather Liner: Cream Lineman/Side Patch: No Thanks Midsole: Single
Pull Loops: Leather Pull Loops [ $15.00 ] Sole: Vibram 430 Mini Vib
Sole Trim: Standard Trim (Double Row Stitch) Toe Cap: Vintage 4-row Toe Cap [ $45.00 ] Logos / Embossing: No logos or Embossing Top: Cut Top (standard)
Size - Length: 11.5
Size - Width: D (medium)
It would be interesting to find out what was "wrong", but perhaps this is a sign that the QC bull is being firmly grasped by the horns, so to speak. I've had terrible luck with White's QC this year (returned two pairs to be remade, and an order mix-up sent me the wrong color in a third pair). I have one more pair coming this month so hopefully I'll at least go 1 for 4.
 

Patek

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Quick question, anyone here have Main Streets in Suede?

Do they fit like usual or run large/small?

Looking at these:

 

wordfool

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Yeah, I think the lack of arch support plus being 1/2 size too large in Iron Rangers was my downfall. I've struggled with the heel pain for almost a year now and it's finally starting to heal. I knew then I should try custom ( or by custom I mean fit sheet plus probably split sizing). My right foot is wider in toe box by at least a whole width but my feet have narrow heels and moderate arch. So im assuming 55 last is best bet compared to MP.

As far as leathers go I liked dress brown but don't like how black it appears.
I fear the CXL grain lottery but British Tan might be worth risk,
Cinnamon waxed flesh is a favorite of mine because it has some texture and wears hard.

Yeah on my Iron Rangers the smaller pair 8.5D was slightly too short on my right foot and pinkie toe would rub into cap toe but when I went up to 9Ds the heel issues started and I was in a world of shit.
So I have some concerns about picking right toe box.
Send the fit sheet/measurements to Baker's/White's -- you might be surprised to learn your foot is not as unusual as you think (as I was). Plantar fasciitis can be caused by all sorts of things. Mine was likely caused by Birkenstocks, according to my foot doc, and they have pretty good arch support -- turns out good arch support can throw other things off in one's gait to cause PF. Did you ever try insoles in your too-large IRs?

I have relatively skinny heels and ankles (always had heel slippages in D-width boots) and the 55 last helps only in the fact that the arch locks my foot down well. The heel cup still feels a bit wide for my foot, even in the C-width that Kyle sized me for, but after break in there's no slippage so it's not a problem and they're far more comfortable than my IRs (I've given up on the idea I'll ever experience a snug fitting heel cup in my lifetime). The MPs I have (in black WF) are a half size smaller than my SD/BH (Baker's recommendation) and actually have a slightly more snug fit overall, but I had to have one stretched slightly in the ball area to fix some tightness on my larger foot and I've still not broken them in properly due to the hot weather. Still more comfortable than my IRs. The toe width does not look or feel that much different to the 55-last (half size difference notwithstanding), but is not quite as tall.

As for leathers, brown dress is very dark brown -- not quite as dark as photos often make it look. It's unmistakably "brown" in person, but certainly not mid-brown. Brown smooth is tough as nails and a mid-brown color, but looks a bit uninteresting IMO. I'm in the "not a fan" camp when it comes to CXL -- IMO it just doesn't age or wear very nicely. I've always considered it more of a dress shoe/boot leather. WF is tough, but can look a bit ratty as it ages and scuffs, although many people seem to like that look. You might want to check out Red Dog, too, although I've not seen it in person so no idea how much it skews red vs brown.
 

CaptMorgan223

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British Tan which I presume to be CXL. It's quite soft and pliable, and has that distinctive new leather smell. The seller claimed to have worn them only about 10 times albeit in rough terrain while camping. Not sure about the accuracy of the representations, but perhaps when he wears boots he walks more than I do and is generally harder on them than I am. CXL is known to stretch quite a bit, but I'm not sure if folks are referencing only the unlined areas or if it extends to the entire boot including the lined areas. I have some lined Alden CXL chukkas, and I haven't experienced much stretch, but I can see how the unlined areas of these White's would be easy to stretch. I can see why some are hesitant to use it as a field boot. It is prone to staining. Maybe that can be prevented with some water proof treatment? However, there is no getting around that it is a soft leather that is relatively easy to nick and scratch, so be prepared for some "character" and patina.

If you want to see how they looked upon arrival....

Thanks for the heads up on CXL. For more rugged casual boots I'm leaning toward cinnamon waxed flesh. I think CXL feels like a more dress leather. Thanks for posting more pics. They look well worn. Celastic toe ?
 

CaptMorgan223

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Send the fit sheet/measurements to Baker's/White's -- you might be surprised to learn your foot is not as unusual as you think (as I was). Plantar fasciitis can be caused by all sorts of things. Mine was likely caused by Birkenstocks, according to my foot doc, and they have pretty good arch support -- turns out good arch support can throw other things off in one's gait to cause PF. Did you ever try insoles in your too-large IRs?

I have relatively skinny heels and ankles (always had heel slippages in D-width boots) and the 55 last helps only in the fact that the arch locks my foot down well. The heel cup still feels a bit wide for my foot, even in the C-width that Kyle sized me for, but after break in there's no slippage so it's not a problem and they're far more comfortable than my IRs (I've given up on the idea I'll ever experience a snug fitting heel cup in my lifetime). The MPs I have (in black WF) are a half size smaller than my SD/BH (Baker's recommendation) and actually have a slightly more snug fit overall, but I had to have one stretched slightly in the ball area to fix some tightness on my larger foot and I've still not broken them in properly due to the hot weather. Still more comfortable than my IRs. The toe width does not look or feel that much different to the 55-last (half size difference notwithstanding), but is not quite as tall.

As for leathers, brown dress is very dark brown -- not quite as dark as photos often make it look. It's unmistakably "brown" in person, but certainly not mid-brown. Brown smooth is tough as nails and a mid-brown color, but looks a bit uninteresting IMO. I'm in the "not a fan" camp when it comes to CXL -- IMO it just doesn't age or wear very nicely. I've always considered it more of a dress shoe/boot leather. WF is tough, but can look a bit ratty as it ages and scuffs, although many people seem to like that look. You might want to check out Red Dog, too, although I've not seen it in person so no idea how much it skews red vs brown.
Yeah my 8.5D iron rangers fit well except tight on right toe box, high volume and no arch support meant I never felt a locked in feeling on my lower volume foot. I think my PF was caused by the heel not being supported and twisting left and right in my bigger 9D Iron Rangers. I fixed a small problem ( the toe box ) and exchanged it for big problem ( PF for over a year with loads of money spent on therapy, insoles, and doctors)

So far I've heard from people I should try 55 last, with instep adjustment.

I totally agree on your opinion of leathers. Brown oil tan works but seems too boring. WF is my favorite because it is interesting and I don't think I'll wear them hard enough to really make them ratty. Planning on ordering some Nick's Builder Pros for my work boots eventually.
 

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