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hoppy_IPA

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Feel like Ive stirred the pot a bit here & I certainly didnt mean to.

Here is a pic of the boots I sent back with the sagging vamp liner. My initial thoughts echo Orion's in that I probably could have lived with it. Ultimately I was concerned it may have gotten worse & didnt want to request an exchange after the boots were used/worn.

So has anyone else seen a vamp liner do this? I feel like this picture really doesn't do it justice and honestly I'm not really one to complain:
image2.jpeg
 

ThatDudeOrion

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Feel like Ive stirred the pot a bit here & I certainly didnt mean to.

Here is a pic of the boots I sent back with the sagging vamp liner. My initial thoughts echo Orion's in that I probably could have lived with it. Ultimately I was concerned it may have gotten worse & didnt want to request an exchange after the boots were used/worn.

So has anyone else seen a vamp liner do this? I feel like this picture really doesn't do it justice and honestly I'm not really one to complain:
View attachment 1423056
So I went and checked by hand, so no pics at the moment, but I have 5 pairs of whites on hand at the moment and based on what I felt, I may have to contradict myself and my earlier statement, I actually do think this is related to whether the toe box is reinforced or not... I have 1 steel toe, 2 single celastic toe and 2 soft toe pairs, and there is no sag on any of the structured toe boots and there is sag on both pairs of soft toe. Not a huge sample size I know, but there does seem to be a pattern in my experience
 

discomute

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20200713_190534.jpg

20200713_190518.jpg


Well, what do you know! I was in the camp that thought unlined vamp was impossible (indeed, Kyle told me it was before I ordered so I didn't bother specifying) but now this has reared its head again, I thought I'd check my unlined Oiltan soft-toe and there you have it
 

Patek

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View attachment 1423147
View attachment 1423148

Well, what do you know! I was in the camp that thought unlined vamp was impossible (indeed, Kyle told me it was before I ordered so I didn't bother specifying) but now this has reared its head again, I thought I'd check my unlined Oiltan soft-toe and there you have it
So, the moral of the story is to get unlined boots and you eliminate the problem.

I had a custom briefcase made years ago by Simon the case maker and he insisted on no lining in his cases as that would be the first thing to fail (along with zippers).
 
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Woodtroll

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Feel like Ive stirred the pot a bit here & I certainly didnt mean to.

Here is a pic of the boots I sent back with the sagging vamp liner. My initial thoughts echo Orion's in that I probably could have lived with it. Ultimately I was concerned it may have gotten worse & didnt want to request an exchange after the boots were used/worn.

So has anyone else seen a vamp liner do this? I feel like this picture really doesn't do it justice and honestly I'm not really one to complain:
View attachment 1423056
I don't think you're stirring the pot at all. I think there's just a lot of uncertainty as to what to expect if you order XYZ configuration of boots, and it leaves folks confused. It would certainly be better in the long run if we knew for sure which models always came with lined vamps, or what additions (such as toe treatments) come with linings, or whatever the case may be. I'm happy to have no lining in my work boots, but I would also be disappointed if I was expecting a lined vamp and didn't get it.

It stands to reason to me that steel and celastic toes need vamp lining, and I've read that some thin and exotic leathers do as well for strength reasons, but beyond that I'm not sure...

:puzzled:
 

ThatDudeOrion

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5050 last is coming very soon. Already some boots in house built on it. I refuse to wear a boot without arch ease in it anymore and for those that feel the same I can promise that it’s a game changer for the MP and dress boots.
Does this mean that the new engineer boot last will be available for custom orders very soon as well?
 

hoppy_IPA

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@Woodtroll - Checked a bunch of my boots tonight & im 90% convinced you’re right.

@discomute & @ThatDudeOrion - thoughts?

case 1: SOFT TOE. 1 pair Semi Dress, unlined with toe cap. Continuous liner from the upper/vamp connection through the toe box. 3 layers of leather including the toe cap.

case 2: SOFT TOE. 2 pair Bounty Hunter with Liner & Toe Cap. Continuous liner from the upper/vamp connection through the toe box. 3 layers of leather including the toe cap.

Case 3: SOFT TOE. 2 pair Bounty Hunter, NO LINER. 2 layers of leather in the toe box. Liner only in the vamp/upper connection.

Case 4: SOFT TOE. 2 pair Semi Dress, YES toe cap WITH LINER. Liner is continuous from vamp/upper connection throughout for 3 layers of leather in the toe box.

Case 5: STEEL TOE. 1 pair Smoke Jumper. Lace To Toe style, No Toe Cap. No Liner at the vamp/upper connection. LINED IN THE TOE BOX. 2 layers of leather on the toe.

Case 6: STEEL TOE. 1 pair Smoke Jumper WITH TOE CAP, NO LINER, YES STEEL TOE BOX. Liner only on upper/vamp connection. 2 layers of leather in the toe box

Case 7: SINGLE CELASTIC. 2 pair MP WITH TOE CAP, NO LINER. Continuous leather liner through vamp/upper connection throughout toe. 3 layers leather in the toe box.

*again, only 90% certain so don’t hold me to all this
 
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discomute

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When you say toe cap do you mean cellastic toe? My unlined BH's have toe caps i.e. they are soft toes with additional leather over them
 

Netvine

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Anyone ever seen a pair of unlined
(including vamp)
soft toed White’s that was not in these four leathers:

Red dog oil tan
Brown smooth oil tan
Black smooth oil tan
Distressed smooth oil tan

Iirc only these four have been proven to have been built with unlined vamps when unlined unstructured is requested.

Imho people need to experience unlined vamps in these leathers. Its very nice this time of year.
 

motojobobo

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I agree with the previous poster on the thermal issue and it may merit consideration as we rarely discuss it in this thread.
I only own one pair of Whites, a Farmer Rancher 4811 last on distressed smooth. Had it for 5 years and mostly used at the ranch and occasionally on a motorcycle. Weather here is predominantly very hot and very humid (28-36 deg C, 80-95% humidity) and the unlined boot has never been uncomfortably warm. Although I am used to my local conditions, I am certain an unlined boot would feel acceptably cooler during summers for folks from cooler/colder areas.
 

Turns31

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Does anyone have MPs in a CXL with unstructured toe caps? Found a couple plain toe and WF but no smooth leathers. Just trying to see how much they collapse.
 

alset_rl

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Does anyone have MPs in a CXL with unstructured toe caps? Found a couple plain toe and WF but no smooth leathers. Just trying to see how much they collapse.
Someone posted a review of this exact make up on reddit a few days ago. Not sure if you saw this.
 

1001

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What are the non-wedge soles that can be used on the northwest last?
 

andy b.

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It has been a long time waiting, but my Frank's finally arrived yesturday. I'm a big advocate for whites, as I have 3 pairs, but heard great things about Frank's. I placed my order January 21 and then covid happened. So here we are 5 and half months later. They came out really well and the craftsman ship is outstanding. I was really impressed, and they fit great.
They look great! I've been thinking about getting a pair of Frank's because I don't have anything from them.
They are very similar to a pair of SJs I have. The photos are on here somewhere.
 

Leveskie

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They look great! I've been thinking about getting a pair of Frank's because I don't have anything from them.
They are very similar to a pair of SJs I have. The photos are on here somewhere.
Thank you! Can you reshare those photos of the smokejumpers? This was my first pair of custom made foot wear. The pairs of whites I have were my fathers
 

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