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SleepyTexan

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Don't mean to inturpt the serious talk but...

Anyone have fit comparisons between Allen Edmonds 65 last and White's MP last? I am interested in the Otto derby. A customer service rep at White's told me they can make them in EEE widths, so I'm really considering a pair for work.
I can give it a shot, in my DT 1466 socks my brannock is 10.25E/10E L/R: I take a 9.5EEE in the 65 last but a 9.5EE would do if I didn't have to take into account my combined moderately high arch and instep; I take a 9EE in White's MP last and it fits pretty great overall; in both cases the shoe flexes at my arch and the taper is about the same with the MP being slightly more aggressive while having a shallower toebox.

If I had to quantify the differences I would say that the MP's have about a ¼" more space along the arch/ball and maybe a ¼" more generous instep, the 65 last runs a ¼" longer and hugs my heel a bit better.

Sizing was done in a pair of Fifth Avenue's and Kinney chukkas in suede.

Hopefully that was of help to you.
 

miggyramone

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I can give it a shot, in my DT 1466 socks my brannock is 10.25E/10E L/R: I take a 9.5EEE in the 65 last but a 9.5EE would do if I didn't have to take into account my combined moderately high arch and instep; I take a 9EE in White's MP last and it fits pretty great overall; in both cases the shoe flexes at my arch and the taper is about the same with the MP being slightly more aggressive while having a shallower toebox.

If I had to quantify the differences I would say that the MP's have about a ¼" more space along the arch/ball and maybe a ¼" more generous instep, the 65 last runs a ¼" longer and hugs my heel a bit better.

Sizing was done in a pair of Fifth Avenue's and Kinney chukkas in suede.

Hopefully that was of help to you.
Thanks! AE actually sized me in my White's size, so I think it might be safe to stick with my 9.5 EEE SD size. Now I just have to confirm White's will do a EEE width in the Otto. They said yes a few months back, so hopefully the answer is still the same.
 

Quack Attack

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Just want to give everyone an update ..... Our Oregon Gov. Kate Brown, has issued a "stay at home" order. Because we sell to first responders, offer PPE for safety toe footwear and are a stand alone brick and mortar store, from what we gather, we are able to stay open. We are having briefings and memos for CDC compliance to keep our employees safe. We have been keeping the 6 foot rule with employees and customers in-store. We are offering curbside service to customers; we’ll have our phone number on the door, customers can call and we’ll service them.

For online customers like yourself, we’re business as usual …. shipping/receiving is normal. Keep in mind if our factories close down, that will prohibit direct ships and prolong lead times on custom boots. With that said, we greatly appreciate your business and an order for us right now means a lot! Just keep in mind, lead times may extend due to factory closures and DC closures for other brands we carry. My two brothers, Brandon and Bryson are still here! My cousin Cheryl is still here in customer service. My cousin Randy is still here in shoe repair. We have a longtime employee, Dustin, still working the front end of the shop. We also have two other employees “on call” if needed. Our garage set-up was last resort!!

With that said, we greatly appreciate everyones support. We hope and pray for y’alls safety during these crazy times.

Thank you!


Kyle Baker
Baker’s Boots
www.bakershoe.com
 

Woodtroll

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Just want to give everyone an update ..... Our Oregon Gov. Kate Brown, has issued a "stay at home" order. Because we sell to first responders, offer PPE for safety toe footwear and are a stand alone brick and mortar store, from what we gather, we are able to stay open. We are having briefings and memos for CDC compliance to keep our employees safe. We have been keeping the 6 foot rule with employees and customers in-store. We are offering curbside service to customers; we’ll have our phone number on the door, customers can call and we’ll service them.

For online customers like yourself, we’re business as usual …. shipping/receiving is normal. Keep in mind if our factories close down, that will prohibit direct ships and prolong lead times on custom boots. With that said, we greatly appreciate your business and an order for us right now means a lot! Just keep in mind, lead times may extend due to factory closures and DC closures for other brands we carry. My two brothers, Brandon and Bryson are still here! My cousin Cheryl is still here in customer service. My cousin Randy is still here in shoe repair. We have a longtime employee, Dustin, still working the front end of the shop. We also have two other employees “on call” if needed. Our garage set-up was last resort!!

With that said, we greatly appreciate everyones support. We hope and pray for y’alls safety during these crazy times.

Thank you!


Kyle Baker
Baker’s Boots
www.bakershoe.com
Thanks for the update, Kyle. I feel very fortunate to have gotten my boots delivered last week, and I hope things continue to go as well as they can for y'all under these conditions. Best wishes to your family, staff, and friends for good health!

Take care,
Regan
 

chicken1616

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Just want to give everyone an update ..... Our Oregon Gov. Kate Brown, has issued a "stay at home" order. Because we sell to first responders, offer PPE for safety toe footwear and are a stand alone brick and mortar store, from what we gather, we are able to stay open. We are having briefings and memos for CDC compliance to keep our employees safe. We have been keeping the 6 foot rule with employees and customers in-store. We are offering curbside service to customers; we’ll have our phone number on the door, customers can call and we’ll service them.

For online customers like yourself, we’re business as usual …. shipping/receiving is normal. Keep in mind if our factories close down, that will prohibit direct ships and prolong lead times on custom boots. With that said, we greatly appreciate your business and an order for us right now means a lot! Just keep in mind, lead times may extend due to factory closures and DC closures for other brands we carry. My two brothers, Brandon and Bryson are still here! My cousin Cheryl is still here in customer service. My cousin Randy is still here in shoe repair. We have a longtime employee, Dustin, still working the front end of the shop. We also have two other employees “on call” if needed. Our garage set-up was last resort!!

With that said, we greatly appreciate everyones support. We hope and pray for y’alls safety during these crazy times.

Thank you!


Kyle Baker
Baker’s Boots
www.bakershoe.com
Thanks, Kyle. You all are the best. Keep safe.
 

chicken1616

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I have a very sparse knowledge about different types of horsehide. I have a pair of MP's in CXL Horsehide, and a pair of SD's in the Baker's only horsehide. I notice White's has a pair on sbay in cordovan HH for well over a thousand $. Can some one explain the differences in these, as per price,etc?
 

Legal Eagles

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I have a very sparse knowledge about different types of horsehide. I have a pair of MP's in CXL Horsehide, and a pair of SD's in the Baker's only horsehide. I notice White's has a pair on sbay in cordovan HH for well over a thousand $. Can some one explain the differences in these, as per price,etc?
Great Question... start here and read down... make sure to hit the Horween link as well...
To know what one really has, one must know:

1) The animal;
2) Where on the animal the hide came from; and
3) The tannage used...

Unfortunately we rarely get that much info.

 

Dancunn

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Hi everyone, been lurking for a while and this is my first post. I'd like to start off by thanking everyone here for providing so much useful info and amazing pictures that were invaluable in picking out my own pair. Here is long post of my initial impressions of my new MP boots.


Build specs:
White's Military Police Service Boot
MP-M1 pattern
Size: 8.5C
MP Leathers: Dark Brown Waxed Flesh
Toe Cap: Vintage 4-row Toe Cap
Sole: Commando Mini Lug Half Sole
Celastic Toe Box: No Thanks
Hardware: All Antique Eyes
Logos / Embossing: No logos or embossing

Ordering:
Placed order with Baker’s on 12/5/19 with Black Friday pricing. Had gone back a forth for a week or so with Kyle with various questions and his sizing recommendations based on my tracings and measurement I sent in. Kyle was extremely helpful and knowledgeable which is super reassuring when you are buying boots that are $450 even on sale. For reference, I don’t know my brannock size, in sneakers I usually wear a 10D with insoles, have Thursday Captains in 10D (my first pair of real boots which I realized later were definitely too large but I still wear), Thursday Presidents in 9.5D which fit well, and Thursday Diplomats in 9D which fit ok. When Kyle recommended an 8.5C I was quite surprised at what sounded very small. I inquired about a try on pair to make sure, but they did not have C width sizes for try on. After confirming my measurements a 2nd time, Kyle was confident in the 8.5C and assured me that if they didn’t fit, Baker’s would make it right. Based on his sterling reputation around these parts, I went with his suggested size. Spoiler alert: he absolutely lived up to his reputation and the sizing was spot on. Overall, the ordering process was great and though I was nervous about spending $450 on a boot I had not tried on (or even actually seen in person), Kyle made me feel confident I was in good hands. If you are planning on ordering a pair of White’s, I HIGHLY recommend going through Baker’s rather than White’s directly, more on this later.

Waiting:
This is the part where things got tough. When I ordered, Kyle estimated an 8 week wait. Understandable, given the nature of the boots and the busy time I ordered during. No big deal. Order was placed 12/5. On 1/21, just about 7 weeks after order, I received an email from Baker’s that they had received my order from White’s, but that the boots were missing the cap toe so they were sending them back to the factory to be rebuilt correctly ASAP and they estimated an additional week or two. Two weeks later, on 2/3 I checked in to see if they had any update. To my disappointment, they told me they received my boots about a week earlier, but that they had QC issues so Baker’s had ordered a complete new pair to be built and estimated another 2-3 weeks. Frustrating to have to wait even longer, but better to wait longer than get a sub-par boot. Finally, on 3/4, I received my tracking info from Baker’s. My boots were on their way to me. The only problem was that I was leaving the country the next day for a trip, thankfully they were being delivered to my office so there would still be someone to receive the package. They were delivered on 3/10, almost 14 weeks from my order. Then it was another 10 days until I was actually able to get my hands on them.

At this point is where I will discuss a topic that has come up often in relation to White’s... Quality Control. I understand the argument that they make work boots so some degree of QC issues are to be forgiven, however, if they want to get into the fashion boot business, then criticism of cosmetic issues seems more than fair. It really should not be too much to expect the QC folks to catch the fact that the order was for cap toe boots and they were built plain toe. Thankfully the Baker boys were on top of things and caught not only that, but then the additional QC issues after the rebuild. They didn’t specify exactly what the QC issues were the 2nd time and I didn’t ask, but I sure am glad I bought through them and not straight from White’s as it seems that White’s QC process could use some improvement. I’ve seen extensive debate here and on Reddit over what constitutes QC issues significant enough to warrant complaint and it is a tremendous relief that I had Baker’s to act as an additional set of eyes deal with this instead of having to worry about it myself. I don’t quite understand how they can charge lower prices than White’s direct while actually adding value, but I am so thankful that they do. Again, if you are ordering White’s, Baker’s seems like the way to go.

The final product:
These boots are FANTASITIC. It took quite some time and few attempts, but in the end, I received a beautiful pair of boots. The leather is thick and consistent, and smells amazing. They have very straight, even stitching throughout the uppers and soles. The lasting and cap toes are also very straight, even, and symmetrical. Just for the sake of full disclosure, there were a few loose threads, a welt trimmed a bit unevenly on the inside of one boot, and some glue around the soles. These are extremely nitpicky imperfections that don’t bother me in the least bit, and I actually think they contribute to the character of a hand built boot. Despite White’s issues with QC, when they get it right, as they did with this pair, they really knock it out of the park.

Fit:
As I had mentioned, I was nervous about what seemed like a small size, but of course, Kyle was spot on. The boots are the snuggest fitting that I own, but they don’t feel tight, more like they are lovingly hugging my feet. My toes don’t feel cramped in at all, and the soft toe seems to provide some extra comfort when I wiggle my toes. After wearing them around the house for a few days, the leather is still rather stiff and I think will take some time to soften up, but they are quite comfortable, no hotspots or lace bite. The arch support is noticeable but not too extreme. It’s pleasantly, well... supportive. The boots themselves are pretty heavy, but don’t actually feel too heavy on foot, they just feel sturdy. Unfortunately, not much walking around to be done in my apartment, and with current coronavirus shelter in place restrictions, it’s going to be a while before I can start putting some real miles on these, but I can’t wait to do so.


Thanks for reading all this. Hope there is useful info in here for someone.
 

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