Custom Suits : Hand-made VS Machine-Made

[sseedragon]

Experts Tailor advice

PRO's and CON's between a Custom fully canvass Hand made VS Machine Made (no fused) suit?

Would you be able to notice a difference?

I believe cost is a lot lot lot higher for a Hand made suit.


Thanks

Sorry the title should be: "Custom Suits Hand-made" VS "Custom Suits Machine-made"

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by sseedragon

Sorry the title should be: "Custom Suits Hand-made" VS "Custom Suits Machine-made"

If we define "custom" as made for you individually from your own pattern, then there are actually very few "machine-made" custom suits.

This might be a more illuminating question if you used specific makers. Which makers are you trying to compare?


- B

 

[Zebear]

most machine-made suits use some limited fusing for their finish (in particular, Brioni does, Greenfield -Brooks Brother's Golden fleece line- does, Giliberto does).

Otherwise, handmade finish is usually more artsy than machine-made finish. In particular lapel buttonholes, when done properly, are really nicer than machine-made ones, and overstitched edges by hand are also less vulgar than the usual machine-made equivalent.

As far as the insides of the suit are concerned, apart from the fusing issue (see above), you will never see any difference (unless you cut your suit apart, obviously)

 

[Cary Grant]

What do you define as "machine made"?
Some folks use that term to include any sewing whatsoever done by sewing machine.
I was talking with a tailor on this over the weekend. At least in the states, the number of bespoke tailors who do not use a machine for at least some basic sticthes is very few.

Or are you referring more to singles-separates lines like Cohen that involve more general machine/factory work?

 

[Zebear]

Originally Posted by Cary Grant

What do you define as "machine made"?
Some folks use that term to include any sewing whatsoever done by sewing machine.
I was talking with a tailor on this over the weekend. At least in the states, the number of bespoke tailors who do not use a machine for at least some basic sticthes is very few.

Or are you referring more to singles-separates lines like Cohen that involve more general machine/factory work?

this is right... You would define hand made suits as suits where the finishes and pickstitches are hand made at least... You could also include the suits that are made by an individual tailor. Everything else is machine made.

 

[josephrex]

Padstitching can be accomplished by machine. So you get a "full canvas" without the hours upon hours of hand stitching. See the device jeffreyd posted on. And of course long seams/darts are accomplished by machine.

 

[voxsartoria]

Well, if we are talking about "custom" tailoring, a lot of those automation machines are beyond the reach of a custom tailor.

If, on the other hand, we are talking about send-away made-to-measure, sure. That's not custom or bespoke in my book.


- B

 

[Zebear]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Well, if we are talking about "custom" tailoring, a lot of those automation machines are beyond the reach of a custom tailor.

If, on the other hand, we are talking about send-away made-to-measure, sure. That's not custom or bespoke in my book.
- B

Some custom tailors tend to do a lot of work by a machine, even though they are custom tailors. Bespoke tailors tend to do less work by a machine, but some of them (lining) can still be done by a machine or made "handmade like" with a machine...
You would never see a difference normally, unless you are an expert tailor with lots of experience...

 

[jefferyd]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Well, if we are talking about "custom" tailoring, a lot of those automation machines are beyond the reach of a custom tailor.

- B

Very important point made here. I hear a lot of "such-and-such an operation" can not be done by machine, it must be done by hand; in most instances this is quite simply no longer true- automated equipment has in many cases far surpassed the results acheivable by hand. These machines tend to be extremely expensive, however, so it is sometimes true that the only readily available means of doing something is by hand. This does not make it inherently better, however, though you are not likely to hear your tailor tell you "you can do just as good a job by machine in ten times less time but I will do it by hand and charge you accordingly because I do not have access to this machine". If you want full custom, which includes access to the cutter and tailor and your own pattern, it will cost you merely because those outfits do not do sufficient volume to buy the equipment, and most factories balk at the inneficiency of doing bespoke (though they may, from time to time and for the right person, do it). There are also many operations which are quite lovely when done by hand in a meaty tweed but look terrible in a super 150s.

Having said that, there are still many operations which ARE better when done by hand, though many are subjective- one finds them more appealing merely because they were done by hand. I personally prefer to hand-pad lapels, for example, but I doubt anybody on this forum would be able to tell the difference looking at a finished jacket, so is this really added-value? There are also many operations which are quite lovely when done by hand in a meaty tweed but look terrible in a super 150s. On the other hand, no machine can match a hand finished armhole in which the pad and sleeve head have been set by hand, and in which the lining has been finished by hand.

Another thing to consider in the hand versus machine or artisan versus factory debate; a tailor who makes two suits per week will have performed each operation twice- two pairs of sleeves, for example. A factory worker who will only set sleeves may set 15 pairs (or more) per hour using a machine especially concieved for the task; at the end of the same week he has set 600 pairs of sleeves. Perfection comes only with repetition so the chances are pretty good that with a ratio of 600 to 2 the factory worker is able to perform that operation with slightly better skill and precision; it is the small imperfections in a tailor-made garment that we usually find charming and welcome as the sign of a hand-made suit.

A hand-made, bespoke suit is a unique work of art and should be a personal expression of the wearer and of its maker and this can never be duplicated in a factory; this comes, though, at a price which to many is absolutely inaccessible. When the hand-sewing is a part of this equation it adds to the beauty of that suit; the hand work, though not necessarily superior per se, is part of a greater, far superior whole.

HOWEVER

Two suits on ebay- one has been made by hand, in which case it has likely been made to fit and to suit someone else, and another that has been made in a factory. You will get a far better value, and in many instances a better constructed suit from the factory. I have friends who have spent great amounts of money buying hand-made atrocities off ebay (from very reputable makers) which would never have made it past quality control in any factory that I know of.

There are no simple, black-and-white answers with regards to what makes a better suit, and that includes hand-versus-machine; one must be very well informed in order to make a proper judgement- chances are good, if you are reading this forum, that you are at least better informed than the vast majority.

Is this what they call ranting?

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by jefferyd

Is this what they call ranting?

Yes. But keep it coming, since it is an interesting viewpoint.


- B

 

[nelly]

Do not quote spam.

 

[Cant kill da Rooster]

I see this thread has brought out all the best people.

 

[comrade]

"Having said that, there are still many operations which ARE better when done by hand, though many are subjective- one finds them more appealing merely because they were done by hand. I personally prefer to hand-pad lapels, for example, but I doubt anybody on this forum would be able to tell the difference looking at a finished jacket, so is this really added-value? There are also many operations which are quite lovely when done by hand in a meaty tweed but look terrible in a super 150s. On the other hand, no machine can match a hand finished armhole in which the pad and sleeve head have been set by hand, and in which the lining has been finished by hand."

My alterations tailor, who is excellent, agrees re: lapels and armholes. He works on many
high-end manufactured and bespoke garments

 

[voxsartoria]

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