Custom Shirt Tailoring Questions

[Douglas]

Hey guys, lots of great shirt discussions out there. I have a few questions, some of which have been referenced, but not necessarily answered to my satisfaction, in other threads. Hoping to get some clear answers... shirtmaven, in particular, it sounds like you are really on the ball with these questions. Hope you can help.

I have had a number of custom shirts (~18) made at two different Hong Kong tailors - not Chan, not Jantzen. The tailoring from both tailors has been OK, but I think far from great. One was clearly inferior, and I'm largely embarrassed to wear the shirts. The collar stays are permanent but not long enough for the collar points, so they stick up. The neck button rolls over a bit and so the tie doesn't pull all the way up properly. I think both tailors made my shirts too bloomy - They're better than any of my off-the-rack shirts, but that's not saying much. With my 18.5-inch neck but otherwise non-NFL-worthy body, anything OTR that gets around my neck looks like a pirate shirt around my waist. In the end, my fits are OK, the shirts are OK, they're better than OTR, but I don't think I'm getting the expertise of a real expert shirtmaker - I'm just getting shirts made to my neck size and with the collars and cuff preferences I want. I'm not getting that next level of fitting so the fabric falls naturally and suits me perfectly.

As I get ready to order my next round of shirts on my next trip, I'm wondering what tips you all have for placing an effective order. I've heard people say things to the effect of "You can get Jantzen to make a decent shirt for the money if you know what to ask for." Here are my specific questions, with some detail and clarification also desired:

1 - Should I go to Jantzen, or are there other local guys in Jantzen's price range who offer a better service, better materials, greater expertise?

2 - Should I ask for a split yoke? What is the purpose/benefit of a split yoke? Are there other yoke details I should be asking about?

3 - Most of my shirts don't have darts. Should I definitely ask for them? What's the difference between taking shirts in at the sides vs. taking them in with darts? Wouldn't darts pull the side seams backwards? And wouldn't darts seem to help more with waist suppression than paring down material at the beltline?

4 - The tailors I've had have asked if I wanted a loose, trim, or standard fit around my waist. I've now asked for standard and trim, and I still feel they're too big at the beltline. Is there a standard measurement I should be asking for? E.g. my waist measurement plus X inches?

5 - The best-fitted-around-my-stomach/waist/hips shirt I've ever bought was a Thomas Pink. It is unique amongst my shirts in that it actually doesn't have just 1 side seam - it has an independent side panel under the arm, and hence two side seams. Is this a special kind of construction I should maybe ask for?

6 - I've always asked for side pleats in my shirts for comfort. Is this contributing to the bloom at the waist? I suppose it's material up top they need to take out below... I sometimes also feel that there's too much material around my chest in front. When I put on a jacket, the material occasionally curtains up a bit between my lapel and tie. Should I try a few shirts without pleats?

7 - How do I make sure to get a neck button that doesn't roll over? (I like my collar to sit very low on my neck in the front, so I've been asking for a "tilt;" I'm not sure if this is playing into the issue.)

8 - Should I ask for removeable collar stays? I sort of like the permanent ones; I can't misplace them, and it makes getting dressed a bit easier. Is there a reason to ask for removeable ones?

9 - Any stitching details I should be asking for? E.g. chain-stitching? What is this, and why is it superior to regular stitching?

10 - What other specific details should I be looking for, and asking for, to ensure I get a shirt that's going to fit like a dream?

Sorry for the length of the post, and the long-winded questions. I'm hoping to learn as much as possible.

Thanks so much for all assistance.

-Douglas

 

[Tomasso]

Most of the answers to your queries are in the archives. BTW, when you call out a specific member for a reply it tends to limit the number of responses from other members.

 

[Douglas]

Clearly, I did limit my responses somehow!

Sorry, no offense was meant.

I have been looking for the answers to my questions... perhaps I haven't looked hard enough yet. I'll keep searching... and I will also hope that folks don't mind chipping in on this thread. I don't need all the answers... if anyone can help with even just one or two of them, I'd be greatly appreciative.

 

[alliswell]

I'll help with some of the questions:

2. A split yoke serves purpose: to allow a striped/check pattern to run symmetrically across your back. That's the only reason to get one.

3. Darts will help a shirt taper from shoulder to waist. It sounds like you'd like your shirts to fit closer in the chest anyway, so I'd fix that, and forget the darts.

4&5. The answer's in the question here - if you have a Thomas Pink shirt that works for you, take it to the tailor and say 'Make me this'. If he doesn't want to make shirts with the separate under-arm panel, say 'Measure this'.

6. Yes, back pleats are making your shirt fit bigger. Get rid of them for a better fit.

7. The tilt is happening because your collar's not high enough, or stiff enough. Look at the Pink shirt - which have stiff collars, in my experience - and have the tailor make that for you.

8. Removeable collar stays are replaceable collar stays. If a built-in gets bent or breaks, you're SOL. If you send your shirts out for laundry, ironing with them in will leave marks on your collar that will make your shirt look cheap. It's a little more hassle to remember removeable stays, but it improves the life and look of the shirt.

 

[chorse123]

Where are you located? This plays a big role in what options are open to you.

Jantzen is pretty much in its own league when it comes to pricing. What are they now? $50? Other makers are going to run you three times that or more.

Given your fit requirements, it sounds like MTM is a better option than RTW with alterations.

Sewn in stays are a very bad idea. They will shorten the life of the shirt

 

[dibenetto]

letmebefell has very good points.

i won't get into the details of the shirt its kinda tough to judge without picture of you wearing it etc

2 years in hong kong and many many different tailors has thought me few rules in HK tailoring:

1)don't ever set foot in a place not highly recommended by somebody knowledgeable IN hongkong.
2)indian tailors are mostly out ( exception with MYTAILOR and few others) same for tourist tailors
3)the most critical part to get a fit is communication
4)find somebody with time and patience.avoid places where you don't get the full attention an time or have to share with 4 others customers at any given time.
5)this one should be 1) find a tailor speaking good english!!!
6)many small tailors in central are slightly more expensive but choose carefully their fabric stocks and do not rush the job. the difference with jantzen can be from 8$us cheaper to 25$us higher 90% of the time you will get more for your money
7)i will not recommend names for the simple reason that im not objective and have been working with many of them....sorry

 

[teddieriley]

This post is just way too long. I was deterred from reading it. Hopefully others with more patience will chime in.

 

[dibenetto]

how many lines are considered acceptable? 1? 10?

 

[alliswell]

I think you should

a) be sure what question you want answered
b) research it thoroughly, here, at askandyaboutclothes.com or thelondonlounge.net (a google site search on these sites can give focused results)
c) ask your question as succintly as possible here, when you're sure you have the right question and can't find an answer somewhere else

- and then, if your question is interesting, don't sweat the length.

 

[teddieriley]

Originally Posted by dibenetto

how many lines are considered acceptable? 1? 10?

8.9.

Hey, that's great if you had 10 minutes to sit and read the question and then take another 20 minutes answering it.

I'm not saying there is a rule of thumb on length or what's "acceptable." My comment was something for the OP's consideration, i.e. that more responses could be forthcoming if not for the sheer length of the original post. I've written some pretty long rambling posts before, and I'm sure people have responded the same way I'm responding to this post. So, now I know better.

 

[retronotmetro]

Originally Posted by letmebefell

I'll help with some of the questions:

2. A split yoke serves purpose: to allow a striped/check pattern to run symmetrically across your back. That's the only reason to get one.

To elaborate: unless a yoke is cut asymmetrically to account for different shaped shoulders, splitting the yoke is just a cosmetic feature, added to make the shirt look like a bespoke one on which the yoke was split for a utilitarian purpose.

 

[alliswell]

retro-

Thanks for the elaboration. I thought about that one for a while - hence the typo in point 2. I concluded that the yoke can be asymmetrical without being split - any accomodation that is made for a physical oddity can be made as easily in one piece of cloth as in two. Do you have an example for my education?

Originally Posted by retronotmetro

To elaborate: unless a yoke is cut asymmetrically to account for different shaped shoulders, splitting the yoke is just a cosmetic feature, added to make the shirt look like a bespoke one on which the yoke was split for a utilitarian purpose.