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Current opinions on Dege/Whittaker bespoke shirts

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by voxsartoria, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, lapped seam sounds right. Each side is folded over to its own side, so it looks symmetric.

    I think a lapped seam is when both are folded over to one side, but I could easily be wrong. So, you're saying that, viewed externally, you see the seam and two rows of hand stitching, one on either side?
     
  2. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    And there is no handwork in a Kabbaz shirt. They are, however, lovingly packaged by hand.

    If mailed to their clients, they are also conveyed within machines guided by hand...some of the machines fly.


    - B
     
  3. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    ...some of the machines fly.

    Apparently, only lying Italians fly their shirts by hand.
     
  4. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    I think a lapped seam is when both are folded over to one side, but I could easily be wrong. So, you're saying that, viewed externally, you see the seam and two rows of hand stitching, one on either side?

    Yes, and the stitching is very fine, like good pick stitching.

    --Andre
     
  5. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    I think a lapped seam is when both are folded over to one side, but I could easily be wrong. So, you're saying that, viewed externally, you see the seam and two rows of hand stitching, one on either side?

    Long underarm seams viewed form the inside, striped Borrelli on top and white Kiton on the bottom (click for supersize):

    [​IMG]

    The lapped seam on the Borrelli is machine closed and machine topstitched (and nicely.)

    The lapped seam on the Kiton is machine closed, but hand topstitched (the lowest horizontal line of stitching.) If this is really done by hand, and not by some Kiton hand-emulation, it is pretty nice work.


    - B
     
  6. whatsinaname

    whatsinaname Well-Known Member

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    I think these examples are more often called flat-felled seams in the context of shirts.

    Did Borrelli use two different machine stitch lengths to prove that the shirt was single-needle sewn? If so, hilarious.

    Long underarm seams viewed form the inside, striped Borrelli on top and white Kiton on the bottom (click for supersize):
    The lapped seam on the Borrelli is machine closed and machine topstitched (and nicely.)

    The lapped seam on the Kiton is machine closed, but hand topstitched (the lowest horizontal line of stitching.) If this is really done by hand, and not by some Kiton hand-emulation, it is pretty nice work.

    - B
     
  7. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    That looks different than the Kiton I saw in a N-M last year around Christmas, but perhaps my memory is failing me. Manton and Matt were there as well, and may remember better.

    Do you have a picture of the side body seam?

    --Andre
     
  8. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    That looks different than the Kiton I saw in a N-M last year around Christmas, but perhaps my memory is failing me. Manton and Matt were there as well, and may remember better.

    Do you have a picture of the side body seam?

    --Andre


    That's all I got for you. These two shirts about about eight or nine years old, though...nearly all my shirts except for the recent batch of Black Fleece OCBDs are eight to fifteen years old.

    Ergo, the search for shirtmaker.


    - B
     
  9. whnay.

    whnay. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    FWIW - Kiton is having a trunk show at BG tomorrow. Foo want don't you go and have a look.
     
  10. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    FWIW - Kiton is having a trunk show at BG tomorrow. Foo want don't you go and have a look.

    Do you propose a Head Mounted FooCam, or a little spy camera replacing one of his Ambrosi fly buttons?


    - B
     
  11. hws

    hws Senior member

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    And there is no handwork in a Kabbaz shirt.
    This is not correct, the button is attach of hand, and the monogram is sewn of hand.
     
  12. binge

    binge Senior member

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    If mailed to their clients, they are also conveyed within machines guided by hand...some of the machines fly.

    If not guided by hand, then at least guidance systems coded by hand...for now.

    And here are some close-ups of the sleeve seam on the white RTW Kiton I got at Wilkes two years ago.

    Outer seam
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Inner seam
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. whnay.

    whnay. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Do you propose a Head Mounted FooCam, or a little spy camera replacing one of his Ambrosi fly buttons?
    - B

    I want to see something other than the floor...
     
  14. RJman

    RJman Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I want to see something other than the floor...

    And wouldn't you worry if they mounted the camera facing the wrong way?
     
  15. jamesbond

    jamesbond Senior member

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    When I started with K he was merely somewhat more expensive than the alternatives. Then it became 2x, then 3x, and is now more like 4x. That all happened very, very quickly. His price doubled in less than three years.

    Thats because he moved to the "Hamptons".

    I am always shocked to hear about bad T&A experiences. I owned about 4-5 shirts from them, ordered through the boutique about a milennia ago and the service/construction/delivery time/etc were all great [​IMG]

    While no one cares and it was not asked, I am in the camp that believes that the difference between good MTM and bespoke shirts is miniscule relative to the difference between the same in suits. You can get a great fit from a non-bespoke maker, I think the personal pattern thing is very much over done here, unless you just have a very hard upper body to fit. I feel the same about MTM/bespoke shoes. And since vox is the king of threak derails, I am sure he will not mind this post.


    I used T&A about 3 years ago. Had 2 fittings and I'm still not happy with the fit, Simon measured me and was a blast to work with (he's now in LA). I plan on going back soon as my pattern only needs a few slight tweeks that they said would not be a problem when i talked to them over the phone. Never had a problem with there construction and there spread collar is the bizzness! I think if your going to get an English shirt you atleast have to try T&A once in your life.

    I thought it was Borrelli he said that about. Not that it makes any difference.

    My Borrelli shirts seem to fall apart after one wash?

    Not that any of this has anything to do with Dege but Vox you have Onassis money so you should be trying every shirtmaker possible. Get to it!
     
  16. kngrimm

    kngrimm Senior member

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    Ugh... 99% of that was unnecessary.. don't care.

    And I haven't missed anything. If you can't say it, oh well.
     
  17. Shirtmaven

    Shirtmaven Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    did I really just waste 20 minutes reading this thread?
    I would have been better off buying toilet paper and some candy for my daughter at the Riteaid.
    and I have decide to raise my prices on shirts made inside.

    Carl
     
  18. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    did I really just waste 20 minutes reading this thread?
    I would have been better off buying toilet paper and some candy for my daughter at the Riteaid.
    and I have decide to raise my prices on shirts made inside.

    Carl


    What kind of shirt were you wearing when your read this thread?

    - B
     
  19. srivats

    srivats Senior member

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    I did not know that about Winston. Do you mean a pattern maker on his own staff? Either way, I am pretty sure he uses a factory to make them up. That is how he does MTM for tailored clothes, which, in my mind, makes it more like bespoke than MTM.

    He has mentioned his shirts to me, though never tried to get me to order from him.


    I think so, but I am not 100% sure. You can always write to him (ie email) and he'll definitely respond.
     

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