Cucinelli Keeps Looking Forward

[SartoriaModerna]

Button placement has always varied on DB jackets - closer or further apart, more or less vertically aligned, etc. They’re laying claim to an innovation which is not an innovation at all. I can think of some fairly well known examples which date back to the 70’s with narrow set and vertically aligned buttons.

The biggest thing Cucinelli’s tailoring has innovated is convincing guys to buy their mediocre tailoring with plenty of fusing and faux handwork for thousands of dollars.

To me, the biggest innovation at BC is actually making tailoring look good when mixed with casual clothing. You always see tailoring with a shirt or perhaps max. a V neck sweater à la Ralph Lauren, but you rarely see it mixed up with other casual pieces. How they style it just works, and in that sense, the "technicals" of a suit is less of importance here since it's meant to be worn casually. No one talks about rules or traditional craftmanship when you wear BC, it's basically sprezzatura 2.0.

I think BC deserves all the credit for this aesthetic. This is what people mean when they say "if you know, you know". The style is quite unique in its whole combination, but taken apart, most are just basic pieces.

 

[Rodney R.]

Button placement has always varied on DB jackets - closer or further apart, more or less vertically aligned, etc. They’re laying claim to an innovation which is not an innovation at all. I can think of some fairly well known examples which date back to the 70’s with narrow set and vertically aligned buttons.

The biggest thing Cucinelli’s tailoring has innovated is convincing guys to buy their mediocre tailoring with plenty of fusing and faux handwork for thousands of dollars.

Goodness! Finally someone who is making sense. The suiting sucks compared to any brands like Attolini, Kiton, D'Avenza, Caruso etc. it's basically super high cost sportswear no matter how you look at it. And this whole aligned buttons is one that does not work well on most physiques.
Well said Jmr928!

 

[RapFan]

I don't think the logo takes away from this outfit. I can't think of a single brand that does casual clothes that doesn't make use of a logo.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Goodness! Finally someone who is making sense. The suiting sucks compared to any brands like Attolini, Kiton, D'Avenza, Caruso etc. it's basically super high cost sportswear no matter how you look at it. And this whole aligned buttons is one that does not work well on most physiques.
Well said Jmr928!

My critique of Cucinelli isn’t a defense of Kiton who employ (and hide) all sorts of short cuts and half assed construction methods.

I don't think the logo takes away from this outfit. I can't think of a single brand that does casual clothes that doesn't make use of a logo. View attachment 1876135

Taking gauche to a whole new level.

 

[rwtc]

Most gets sold at below wholesale

Please point me toward where I might be able to buy Cucinelli at below wholesale for current season items and I'll be more than happy to buy.

You also mentioned that there was "no handwork" on Cucinelli, but evidence suggests otherwise

 

[rwtc]

My critique of Cucinelli isn’t a defense of Kiton who employ (and hide) all sorts of short cuts and half assed construction methods.

It's times at these I wished @SartodiNapoli was still around for forum drama

(He's a Kiton trained tailor with a very strong personality)

 

[Rodney R.]

My critique of Cucinelli isn’t a defense of Kiton who employ (and hide) all sorts of short cuts and half assed construction methods.

Taking gauche to a whole new level.

Not to say I'm an overenthused wearer of Kiton although I own plenty. The handwork is just a bit messy in my opinion. Attolini is worth it IMHO. Remember there are far less talented tailors left in the world so truly skilled handwork is becoming rarer still. The very best value for each dollar spent is Caruso and I defend that endlessly. Again, just a string opinion after wearing everything under the sun and knowing actual manufacturers versus just talking about it.

 

[NVPG]

It's times at these I wished @SartodiNapoli was still around for forum drama

(He's a Kiton trained tailor with a very strong personality)

I can only speak to Kiton dress shirts….the amount of hand stitching is insane. The price tag to me is justified. I don’t know if anything’s changed in recent years though.

 

[rwtc]

Not to say I'm an overenthused wearer of Kiton although I own plenty. The handwork is just a bit messy in my opinion. Attolini is worth it IMHO. Remember there are far less talented tailors left in the world so truly skilled handwork is becoming rarer still. The very best value for each dollar spent is Caruso and I defend that endlessly. Again, just a string opinion after wearing everything under the sun and knowing actual manufacturers versus just talking about it.

You know Attolini's markup isn't any better than Cucinelli's, right?

I can only speak to Kiton dress shirts….the amount of hand stitching is insane. The price tag to me is justified. I don’t know if anything’s changed in recent years though.

Yeah their shirting is nice and nothing has changed as far as I know. Sarto actually made shirts for Kiton as well, but he'd go on these loooooong rants that also tended to be very offensive, which probably got him banned again.

That or he deleted his account

 

[Rodney R.]

Please point me toward where I might be able to buy Cucinelli at below wholesale for current season items and I'll be more than happy to buy.

You also mentioned that there was "no handwork" on Cucinelli, but evidence suggests otherwise

What evidence my friend? There are machines made to mimic handwork. Pic-stitching means nothing anymore. To say there's hidden handwork but all buttonholes are basic machine made is counter intuitive. You say much about your garment by the things that become apparent immediately to the end user.
You have not paid much attention then to the recycled styles each season. Shoes are the same overpriced stuff season in season out. What changes are fabrics or colors, but basically all recycled in men's. I can't speak for Womens but men's? If you've seen one or two seasons, you've seen them all. Try eBay where jobbers get the unsold bulk of products and sell them at a fraction. FOMO is too expensive.

 

[Rodney R.]

I can only speak to Kiton dress shirts….the amount of hand stitching is insane. The price tag to me is justified. I don’t know if anything’s changed in recent years though.

Yes but the handwork is not great handwork. It's not how much handwork is in a garment but whether or not they are skilled. But I do like them very much! 100Hands made in India is by far, the best handmade shirt being sold today. Made by seamstresses that have years of embroidery experience. Check them out.

 

[JohnMRobie]

I can only speak to Kiton dress shirts….the amount of hand stitching is insane. The price tag to me is justified. I don’t know if anything’s changed in recent years though.

They’re fine - But at $700 or so per shirt for basic stuff they’re equal to or more expensive than most full handmade bespoke stuff in Naples that I can think of.

 

[rwtc]

What evidence my friend? There are machines made to mimic handwork. Pic-stitching means nothing anymore. To say there's hidden handwork but all buttonholes are basic machine made is counter intuitive. You say much about your garment by the things that become apparent immediately to the end user.
You have not paid much attention then to the recycled styles each season. Shoes are the same overpriced stuff season in season out. What changes are fabrics or colors, but basically all recycled in men's. I can't speak for Womens but men's? If you've seen one or two seasons, you've seen them all. Try eBay where jobbers get the unsold bulk of products and sell them at a fraction. FOMO is too expensive.

You are absolutely correct - they indeed use machines to mimic the pick stitching work, but they also produce suits with far more handwork, per my pictures in page 8. It's genuine handwork, with handmade buttonholes and so on.

What's wrong with recycled styles? They change up the lapels and their tailoring looks much more identifiable than Caruso. Caruso makes a good garment, but let's be honest.... who can tell if someone is wearing Caruso?

Attolini wool suits are $8K USD at the retail level. Since we both know the wholesale price, wouldn't you say that the markup is quite crazy? Even moreso than BC? A high markup is the norm in the luxury segment

Charcoal and Blue Glen Plaid Suit

Cesare Attolini Charcoal and Blue Glen Plaid Suit Notch lapels Two button jacket Front left chest pocket Flap waist pockets Double back vents Pick stitch detailing Drop 7 Flat front pant Zip fly Two button closure Belt loops Side pockets Coin pockets Single button welt back pockets 8’’ hem...

stanleykorshak.com

 

[Enrico Mandelli]

The biggest thing Cucinelli’s tailoring has innovated is convincing guys to buy their mediocre tailoring with plenty of fusing and faux handwork for thousands of dollars.

It isn't just limited to tailoring.

Most of what Cucinelli sells is upper middle class to lower upper class at best in terms of quality and craftmanship.
What he has been successfull in doing is to convince enough people into paying high end prices for products that quaility wise are not in that league at all.

Just look at the following suede leather jacket that goes for around 7000.
Cucinelli suede leather jacket
Each arm is made from 3 pieces of leather and when you add the back seam it actually are 6 pieces.
Front and back contain 4 peaces of leather each.
Anyone who knows a bit about leather knows that the smaller the single pieces are the cheaper they are.
I actually saw such a jacket in person a while ago and the different pieces at the front and back even had noticable differences in both color and structure. Very cheap looking. And the suede quality itself was also very mediocre.

So for 7000 you get a leather jacket with mediocre leather quality that consits of leather pieces from different animals directly close to each other with no color or structure matching and consisting of countless single pieces of leather exhuding a H&M vibe because Cucinelly was too greedy to use larger pieces.
Even 700 bucks (90% off) would be too much for that cheap looking jacket.

 

[rwtc]

It isn't just limited to tailoring.

Most of what Cucinelli sells is upper middle class to lower upper class at best in terms of quality and craftmanship.
What he has been successfull in doing is to convince enough people into paying high end prices for products that quaility wise are not in that league at all.

Just look at the following suede leather jacket that goes for around 7000.
Cucinelli suede leather jacket
Each arm is made from 3 pieces of leather and when you add the back seam it actually are 6 pieces.
Front and back contain 4 peaces of leather each.
Anyone who knows a bit about leather knows that the smaller the single pieces are the cheaper they are.
I actually saw such a jacket in person a while ago and the different pieces at the front and back even had noticable differences in both color and structure. Very cheap looking. And the suede quality itself was also very mediocre.

So for 7000 you get a leather jacket with mediocre leather quality that consits of leather pieces from different animals directly close to each other with no color or structure matching and consisting of countless single pieces of leather exhuding a H&M vibe because Cucinelly was too greedy to use larger pieces.
Even 700 bucks (90% off) would be too much for that cheap looking jacket.

Suede quality being "very mediocre" is a bit dishonest, don't you think? It looks like reverse suede with a very short nap. At least that was the case with mine.

Their shearlings are also quite nice, with very large of pieces of leather used.

The biggest advantage for BC's leatherwear is that it's very nicely styled and contemporary. Gimos and Seraphin look like it's styled from 80 years ago