Crompton: "It rarely feels appropriate to wear a pocket handkerchief anymore"

[JJ Katz]

Same experience in the UK. Less of a stigma vs. male elegance, I think.

 

[maxalex]

Yes, I think that's the common understanding. With people also recognizing that this attire doesn't really differ from the many other dress codes laid out, hence the confusion over "cocktail attire."

At least here on the Continent, “cocktails” are an after-work, pre-dinner engagement in a bar. (Most restaurants don’t even serve mixed drinks.) As such by definition, cocktail attire would be what you wore to work. I suppose Saturday could be something less like the office and more festive…

Permanent Style has been a great resource for me. I'm still a fan of Simon even if I don't agree with his outfits or style choices. I think writing about bespoke tailors and dress will always hit an upper limit, especially during the past two years. In the middle of the pandemic itself, we are also in the midst of a huge culture shift where people may not have to show up in person. So I think he is also leaning more casual while still highlighting small tailoring houses and craftspeople. I thought his recent piece on modern evening wear was excellent and contemporary.

To me, Permanent Style has always struck me as a niche blog to a niche audience. Simon's tastes change and his views change as time goes on. This is something that happens to everyone.

Re; Belts.
Personally, one of the nicer aspects of having tailored pants is that I don't have to worry about a belt. It's an annoyance when getting dressed in the morning. It forms a cleaner line. I thought the whole point of not wearing a belt was to maintain a clean line; I generally agree with this premise. I wear belts for RTW trousers and I do think its a minor nuisance. Belts are a standard issue thing so the idea this is a revelation does make for an amusing headline.

Ballcaps and tailoring do not belong together. Ever. There is never a good execution of this look and it is very common in New York. It begs the question; are you trying to dress up or not? I do not like this aesthetic limbo.

The only time I wear ball caps is with street wear like leather jackets and Chelsea boots, and it’s always for a purpose—either rain or sun protection generally on my bicycle. I only wear law enforcement caps—I have NYPD and China National Police. Both are authentic, from the source. Don’t ask.

 

[maxalex]

It is odd, but I dress more formal in the summer, than I do in the colder month(s). This is something I’ve thought about before. Most hot weather outfits are aesthetically boring. The lack of jacket is very limiting, and the aesthetic without is lacking. Yes, there are instances where that isn’t the case, but I don’t want to wear that over and over again. I don’t think men look good in shorts, including myself. Thus, I don’t consider them as an option for the basis of an outfit. Also, if it’s the heat I think y’all are referring to, you gon sweat, regardless. Might as well look good doing it, with pockets to carry ****.

With that said, I am searching for other more casual options, jacket wise for hot weather. Thinking of having something made in the appropriate fabric. Also, cabana shirts are appealing to switch it up.

There are a ton of wonderful casual options for cooler weather. Makes it easy to dress less formally without stylistic sacrifice.


Your second to last sentence is valid, and it likely influences my choices and comfort. However, breathable linen pants are much more attractive and effective in keeping one cool than shorts. Shorts expose more skin to direct sun, when it is theoretically the hottest. No thank you. Linen pants that aren’t tight will do you wonders.

I wear suits and jackets in the summer in Rome, a hot city getting hotter and not noted for generous distribution of air conditioning. Lots of silk and fresco wool. Seersucker. Rarely ties. Often linen trousers but not linen suits. (Contrary to popular belief, Irish linen is too heavy for hot weather, plus sweat stains linen, requiring a trip to the dry cleaner. Save it for the shoulder seasons.) A Panama hat is my best friend. I walk slow and seek shade.

 

[smittycl]

I wear suits and jackets in the summer in Rome, a hot city getting hotter and not noted for generous distribution of air conditioning. Lots of silk and fresco wool. Seersucker. Rarely ties. Often linen trousers but not linen suits. (Contrary to popular belief, Irish linen is too heavy for hot weather, plus sweat stains linen, requiring a trip to the dry cleaner. Save it for the shoulder seasons.) A Panama hat is my best friend. I walk slow and seek shade.

Sort of the same for me here in Wash DC. Oppressive summers mean fresco and other high-twist wool suits. Irish linen is awful for tailoring. Too heavy. Italian linen makes better dress shirts. Linen dress socks are fine as well. Ties are still a must but linen and linen blends work fairly well.

 

[radicaldog]

In a diverse, pluralistic city like this, people go around dressed like goths, like witches, like anything they like, It's not inappropriate. It's just unusual.

I would love it if the iGents in three-piece suits could admit that they are doing a subcultural thing, just like the people in urban ninja streetwear.

 

[Mirage-]

I wear suits and jackets in the summer in Rome, a hot city getting hotter and not noted for generous distribution of air conditioning. Lots of silk and fresco wool. Seersucker. Rarely ties. Often linen trousers but not linen suits. (Contrary to popular belief, Irish linen is too heavy for hot weather, plus sweat stains linen, requiring a trip to the dry cleaner. Save it for the shoulder seasons.) A Panama hat is my best friend. I walk slow and seek shade.

Oh, a fellow inhabitant of this cursed land.
In the summer I find it so hot and humid I feel like I have to take a shower whenever I venture outside for more than 10 minutes, and that's with nothing but a polo and shorts, assuming I'm not at work ofc.
I have long since realized that covering the head would probably help, but as of now I haven't quite worked out the confidence to wear a panama hat in the middle of Rome, at my young age. I probably should.
On the other hand, some shops (e.g. supermarkets) air condition so much that I actually specifically bring some sort of jacket if I know I will be spending much time there...

Personally I just can't find high-twist wool that I like the look of. The texture just can't compare to linen imo (nor to heavier wools), though definitely would go for the lighter Italian one, no matter how much Crompton praises his favourite tobacco Irish linen suit (which does look great, granted). Will probably look to linen/wool/silk mixes for next summer though.

 

[maxalex]

Sort of the same for me here in Wash DC. Oppressive summers mean fresco and other high-twist wool suits. Irish linen is awful for tailoring. Too heavy. Italian linen makes better dress shirts. Linen dress socks are fine as well. Ties are still a must but linen and linen blends work fairly well.

I actually love my W. Bill Irish linen tobacco suit, made by Andrea Luparelli here. I find the lightweight Italian linens wrinkle too easily; a suit looks like a crumpled up newspaper after an hour. The heavier Irish fabric retains its shape better. But it’s too heavy for summer.

 

[smittycl]

I actually love my W. Bill Irish linen tobacco suit, made by Andrea Luparelli here. I find the lightweight Italian linens wrinkle too easily; a suit looks like a crumpled up newspaper after an hour. The heavier Irish fabric retains its shape better. But it’s too heavy for summer.

Linen suits are too shiny and casual for me to wear to work. Blends can be okay but I've had the best luck with fresco and similar wools in half-lined suits.

 

[maxalex]

Oh, a fellow inhabitant of this cursed land.
In the summer I find it so hot and humid I feel like I have to take a shower whenever I venture outside for more than 10 minutes, and that's with nothing but a polo and shorts, assuming I'm not at work ofc.
I have long since realized that covering the head would probably help, but as of now I haven't quite worked out the confidence to wear a panama hat in the middle of Rome, at my young age. I probably should.
On the other hand, some shops (e.g. supermarkets) air condition so much that I actually specifically bring some sort of jacket if I know I will be spending much time there...

Personally I just can't find high-twist wool that I like the look of. The texture just can't compare to linen imo (nor to heavier wools), though definitely would go for the lighter Italian one, no matter how much Crompton praises his favourite tobacco Irish linen suit (which does look great, granted). Will probably look to linen/wool/silk mixes for next summer though.

I think Panamas look fine on younger men; they don’t project cosplay like a fedora, at least to my eye. Make sure to buy a good one, meaning a genuine Montecristo, so you don’t look like the tourists wearing those €5 Chinese abominations sold in the souvenir shops. I think the best are hand blocked by Brent Black in Hawaii. His prices are up and down the scale, depending on the level of weaving. I’m happy with the $500 versions and never feel tempted by the ones costing thousands.

 

[maxalex]

Linen suits are too shiny and casual for me to wear to work. Blends can be okay but I've had the best luck with fresco and similar wools in half-lined suits.

Yeah if you have to go into a real job, linen is a stretch.

 

[smittycl]

I think Panamas look fine on younger men; they don’t project cosplay like a fedora, at least to my eye. Make sure to buy a good one, meaning a genuine Montecristo, so you don’t look like the tourists wearing those €5 Chinese abominations sold in the souvenir shops. I think the best are hand blocked by Brent Black in Hawaii. His prices are up and down the scale, depending on the level of weaving. I’m happy with the $500 versions and never feel tempted by the ones costing thousands.

I wear one here in DC sometimes in the high summer. Haven't touched since the pandemic, though.

 

[Mirage-]

I think Panamas look fine on younger men; they don’t project cosplay like a fedora, at least to my eye. Make sure to buy a good one, meaning a genuine Montecristo, so you don’t look like the tourists wearing those €5 Chinese abominations sold in the souvenir shops. I think the best are hand blocked by Brent Black in Hawaii. His prices are up and down the scale, depending on the level of weaving. I’m happy with the $500 versions and never feel tempted by the ones costing thousands.

Indeed I only have a cheap one (though not that cheap!), and likely would feel like a tourist regardless of whether I actually look like one. Yet, it's hard to budget a 500€ hat I don't even know if I'll actually end up wearing (which would cost more than what I paid for my jackets). I suppose I should find a middle-ground option. Maybe something like https://www.poszetka.com/product-eng-6617-Panama-hat-burnt-with-navy-blue-rep.html?

 

[maxalex]

Indeed I only have a cheap one (though not that cheap!), and likely would feel like a tourist regardless of whether I actually look like one. Yet, it's hard to budget a 500€ hat I don't even know if I'll actually end up wearing (which would cost more than what I paid for my jackets). I suppose I should find a middle-ground option. Maybe something like https://www.poszetka.com/product-eng-6617-Panama-hat-burnt-with-navy-blue-rep.html?

Head over to the Borsalino shop in Campo Marzio. I believe they have some genuine Panamas for under €200.

 

[JJ Katz]

I would love it if the iGents in three-piece suits could admit that they are doing a subcultural thing, just like the people in urban ninja streetwear.

People who wear 3PC do know they are a select group. I know quite a few. "Sub-culture" is a a bit bouji in this context but OK...

Oh, and IIUC, "iGent" is meant as a term of scorn, pet.

 

[dieworkwear]

CM is so weird. I don't know of any clothing genre where members feel the need to denigrate everything outside its genre. The only exception I can think of is Eugene Rabkin at StyleZeitgeist, who hates everything that's not scripturally avant-garde.