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Crompton: "It rarely feels appropriate to wear a pocket handkerchief anymore"

Mirage-

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Wearing 5k suit with the ironic smirk of a baseball cap and sneakers almost as if apologising for wearing tailored clothing.
That's a fair point, it is a bit of a funny endeavor. Makes me think of the various articles about "stealth wealth".
 

FlyingMonkey

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IIUC, your metric is frequency (how many people wear item X in a setting).
I think you should do people the favour of reading what they actually say, rather than trying to convert it into something else. I specifically didn't use a 'metric', I was speaking qualitatively and descriptively. And I never used the word 'inappropriate' and made sure to make it clear that I think dressing archaically is absolutely fine - which you also neglected to notice. And norms are not value judgements, they are social facts. I'm not saying wearing style X or Y is 'better', merely that the dominant idiom of this side of the forum, which was already something of a minority interest (and one which, please note very carefully again, I shared), is now increasingly anachronistic - a fact that Permanent Style also belatedly recognises, even if some others still do not.
 
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JJ Katz

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I think you should do people the favour of reading what they actually say, rather than trying to convert it into something else. I specifically didn't use a 'metric', I was speaking qualitatively and descriptively. And I never used the word 'inappropriate' and made sure to make it clear that I think dressing archaically is absolutely fine - which you also neglected to notice. And norms are not value judgements, they are social facts. I'm not saying wearing style X or Y is 'better', merely that the dominant idiom of this side of the forum, which was already something of a minority interest (and one which, please note very carefully again, I shared), is now increasingly anachronistic - a fact that Permanent Style also belatedly recognises, even if some others still do not.
It's possible I read (too much?) between the lines. If so I apologise.
In my defence, it might be because the lines seem blurry. I would like to understand better, for instance, what you mean precisely by 'anachronistic'. My impression is that we have different interpretations of that word, even admitting there are degrees to it.
If an item of clothing is available in most menswear online retailers and shops with no hint of ironic or costume (as in, for a theatrical performance) intent, I think it is a gross exaggeration to refer to it as anachronistic.
I would also argue that, ex-post backpedalling notwithstanding, in a ragingly presentist society such as ours, 'anachronistic' is far from a neutral adjective that carries no negative connotations.
 

Phileas Fogg

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If an item of clothing is available in most menswear online retailers and shops with no hint of ironic or costume (as in, for a theatrical performance) intent, I think it is a gross exaggeration to refer to it as anachronistic.
That’s about as reasonable an argument as one could make when differentiating between what is anachronistic or not. Anachronistic would be wearing a top hat or a cape. Perhaps a diamond handled walking stick.
 

pwbower

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What sort of clothing feels contemporary, anachronistic, audacious, appropriate, conformist, eccentric, cheeky, etc must depend so much on who you are, what you do and where you live. And how old you are.

I have to say that in NYC, it's all happening all the time. So nothing really makes me feel like I stand out (on the street, at least).
Although the overwhelming trend toward athleisure or whatever is pretty clear, I'm always a little surprised over hand-wringing at what's appropriate. Like, who cares (although I get that defining "appropriate" is kind of Simon's thing).

Also I guess I'm freer to be me than some others. I'm a white man in a big city. I'm an artist, and I work from home in a creative field. I'm married and not trying to attract a mate. I'm 43 ... so not burdened with youth.
 

Dadacantona

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Without getting too deep into clothing semiotics (don’t half the threads on CM go that way eventually?) I do think context matters.

In Simon‘s case I think he worries unduly. I have seen him write that he feels fine in suits etc in Mayfair but self conscious in his suburb, which if I had to guess would be a wealthy, white middle class area of outer London. In poorer and working class areas, a person dressed in CM might be treated with suspicion, and rightly so - often suits mean interfering outsiders who cause trouble (police, landlords, lawyers, local authority bureaucrats etc), in which case it could be deemed to be confrontational. I dunno, perhaps I’m waffling, but I live in fairly middle class, albeit very casual neighbourhood now, and my way of dress is largely treated as a mild eccentricity, if noticed at all, but I wouldn’t walk around the areas I grew up in and where most of my family still live in a suit or sports coat.
 

JJ Katz

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Interesting and valid point about context and appropriateness. As I mentioned in an old thread, there may be environments of such modest economic means that evidently expensive clothes would be in poor taste.

Interestingly, though, I have received some of the most pleasant, vivid support for fancy clothes from people in relatively low-paid jobs (or even no job...) and in less than posh locales.

I think that if one's elegance is an expression of an honest aesthetic emotion it transmits positively to many people.
Conversely, the very, very few snide remarks I received when I was younger invariably came from people who were far from socially disadvantaged.
 

'patanoster

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Without getting too deep into clothing semiotics (don’t half the threads on CM go that way eventually?) I do think context matters.

In Simon‘s case I think he worries unduly. I have seen him write that he feels fine in suits etc in Mayfair but self conscious in his suburb, which if I had to guess would be a wealthy, white middle class area of outer London. In poorer and working class areas, a person dressed in CM might be treated with suspicion, and rightly so - often suits mean interfering outsiders who cause trouble (police, landlords, lawyers, local authority bureaucrats etc), in which case it could be deemed to be confrontational. I dunno, perhaps I’m waffling, but I live in fairly middle class, albeit very casual neighbourhood now, and my way of dress is largely treated as a mild eccentricity, if noticed at all, but I wouldn’t walk around the areas I grew up in and where most of my family still live in a suit or sports coat.
Not sure if you are based in London so apologies if so and this sounds patronising, but outside of certain parts of central London (and a few bits dotted around z2-4), most of the city is *relatively* well mixed. So while he does (to my knowledge) live in an area with a relatively wealthy section of the community, there is still a lot of social housing, working class communities, etc dotted all around the area.
Which is not to say its not a good part of London, and there are definitely parts where a suit would stick out a lot more, I do understand a little bit of self consciousness.
What kind of ground would you all like to see a 15 year-old, consistently updated, CM-oriented menswear blog cover?
Most appropriate CM to wear to a sex party?
 

pwbower

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Without getting too deep into clothing semiotics (don’t half the threads on CM go that way eventually?) I do think context matters.

In Simon‘s case I think he worries unduly. I have seen him write that he feels fine in suits etc in Mayfair but self conscious in his suburb, which if I had to guess would be a wealthy, white middle class area of outer London. In poorer and working class areas, a person dressed in CM might be treated with suspicion, and rightly so - often suits mean interfering outsiders who cause trouble (police, landlords, lawyers, local authority bureaucrats etc), in which case it could be deemed to be confrontational. I dunno, perhaps I’m waffling, but I live in fairly middle class, albeit very casual neighbourhood now, and my way of dress is largely treated as a mild eccentricity, if noticed at all, but I wouldn’t walk around the areas I grew up in and where most of my family still live in a suit or sports coat.
Good points. Anecdotally, I live in an area with plenty of disadvantaged folks. It's a mixed bag, but I actually generally get a nice response or even complements, especially on a hat or shoes. There's a great tradition of CM in African American culture that persists today, which may account for that.
 

bicycleradical

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Good points. Anecdotally, I live in an area with plenty of disadvantaged folks. It's a mixed bag, but I actually generally get a nice response or even complements, especially on a hat or shoes. There's a great tradition of CM in African American culture that persists today, which may account for that.
I tend to get more compliments on my CM ensembles from African American men. If they think I'm cool, I must be doing ok. ;)
 

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