Crocodile edward green shoes

[Phil]

I have a question for the shoe experts of the group. Over the years I have amassed a nifty little collection of Edward Green shoes and boots. I tend to stick with browns, and mix it up every so often with some suede models. However, I have always wanted a pair of crocodile shoes. I love croc accessories, as I have a wallet and a few belts made out of it. Actually they are american alligator, and I honestly dont know what the difference technically is between croc and alligator, perhaps someone on here can educate me. So the question is (once I get over the sticker shock), is what is your opinion on croc shoes in general? I have read, and I cant for the life of me remember where, that croc in the old days used to be incredibly durable, but in the present time become much less so. I worry that a pair of dark brown (or as EG calls it - mocha) croc shoes might be a bit flashy. Am I wrong about this? I love the subtle elegance of a alligator belt or wallet, but maybe just seeing a bit of it is enough. And also, are they going to be durable? Considering the cost, I would like them to last a very long time. What do you guys think?

 

[Phil]

sorry, one more thing - EG states that they only use the smallest pieces of croc and therefore their shoes are pieced together. is this a good thing? I was always taught to examine alligator wallets and make sure that it was made from one piece of skin, so it didnt have to be glued or stitched together, as that can lead to cracking. Seems EG philosophy goes against that. Am I wrong about this?

 

[bengal-stripe]

I think crocodile or alligator shoes are very much a matter of personal taste. Reptile leather needs a lot of pampering and moisturizing as it has a tendency to dry out. Particular as it has the potential fault lines built in between every scale. The larger the scales, the easier they crack.

That's why EG talks in the catalogue about using the smallest skins and pieced designs. That means that the skins are pieced between the stitch lines and that they select designs, which are made up from smaller pieces. Wholecut means a lace-up, or moccasin, which is cut from a single piece of leather and closed with only a seam in the back. Compare that with a wing tip balmoral, which is made up from a number of pieces: wing tip, vamp, quarters, counters, tongue. That does not mean that the pieces EG uses are joined to make up a bigger piece of leather. (I have a crocodile belt where various pieces are glued together to make up the length of the belt.)

Alligator has a square snout and crocodile a pointed one, but how you can see a difference once the beasts are turned into shoes or briefcases, I do not know. Probably an expert can distinguish between the two species. In both animals the superior leather comes from the back with square scales, while the belly leather has oval scales.

For what it's worth, I personally, have a problem with reptile leathers, it can look very brash. Alas from my general dislike, I would exclude John Lobb's "Perrier" model, a three-eyelet blucher, which is about the plainest style possible. That shoe looks absolutely stunning in brown crocodile. Perfection.

 

[jcusey]

I rather like crocodile or alligator shoes, provided that they're well-done. The scales need to be relatively small, and the design needs to be plain and unadorned. That's why JL Paris's Perrier model is so successful in crocodile: it's so very plain. I think that EG's Chelsea or Windermere models would be superlative in crocodile, particularly peanut brittle crocodile. You need to take care of crocodile and alligator leathers. The scales can split and peel if you're not careful. Still, if you do take care of them, however, the shoes made from crocodile or alligator should last for a very long time. Bengal-stripe may be correct that the best skin comes from the back of the animal, but I don't think that you really want shoes made from back leather. It's called hornback alligator or crocodile, and it looks like this:

That's a little bit flamboyant for shoes. If I recall correctly, the most sought-after skins for shoes come from the lower sides of young animals: the scales are small and roundish rather than large and rectangular like you would find on the bellies.

 

[A Harris]

Yep, skip the hornback boots. The only good use I've ever seen for hornback is these belts from Orvis:

For some reason I think that belt would be great for casual wear. Dark brown belly alligator makes for great cowboy boots as long as it's not too shiny. As for the Edward Green shoes - I'm guessing they would be very tasteful. I agree with Jcusey - you can get away with alligator as long as it's dark brown, the scales are small, the design is simple, and the finish is not too shiny. I'm with Bengal too, the Perrier in dark brown croc is tops.

 

[T4phage]

In addition to crocodile (both fresh water and salties) and alligator (american and chinese), there are other species of the same family: gharial (long thin snout), and the caiman, which are used for their leathers. Between the family members, the leather thickness, suppleness varies, and also within the groups the leather is different (e.g american alligator v.s chinese, saltwater croc v.s freshwater). I don't know about the back skin being used though except for the pictures posted below. In the farms that I have visited (Australia and New Guinea), when they pack the skin for shipping, they only pack the belly to tail piece. The back is pretty thick and horny

(scutes, which are bone plates) and I don't see how flexible they can make it. I am not sure that makes a nice looking dress shoe. Most dress shoe makers generally use the belly skin (the scales are rounder and irregular), but I have seen some Italians (Mantellassi for one) who use the tail (scales are more rectangular and even). I personally think that belly scales work better since it is somewhat more subtle, and with the smaller, more irregular patterning of the belly scales, the potential of a large fault line being where your toe bends is less of a problem compared to a shoe made with tail skin. As one who has just recently ordered a croco shoe (Weston Reference loafer - I hope it works A.Harris

I should have it within three weeks ), it does take some time for the type of leather to grow on you. I've always resisted that type of shoes for years, until now.

 

[T4phage]

Originally posted by Phil:

EG states that they only use the smallest pieces of croc and therefore their shoes are pieced together. is this a good thing? I was always taught to examine alligator wallets and make sure that it was made from one piece of skin, so it didnt have to be glued or stitched together, as that can lead to cracking. Seems EG philosophy goes against that. Am I wrong about this?

Originally posted by Bengal-Stripe:

That's why EG talks in the catalogue about using the smallest skins and pieced designs. That means that the skins are pieced between the stitch lines and that they select designs, which are made up from smaller pieces. Wholecut means a lace-up, or moccasin, which is cut from a single piece of leather and closed with only a seam in the back. Compare that with a wing tip balmoral, which is made up from a number of pieces: wing tip, vamp, quarters, counters, tongue.

As a person who has seen the "product in the raw" as it were, I wonder why that is. Some of the skins from [/b]young freshwater and saltwater crocodiles looked large enough to make a wholecut (that is, large enough excluding the tail and the anal openings in the belly skin).

 

[Phil]

thanks for all the replies, it has certainly been educational. As for whether or not I will get the shoes, I am just not sure. I know its beautiful leather, but it just seems a bit flashy for me.

 

[dah328]

So the consensus seems to be that reptile skins require more care than other leathers. Can anyone recommend a good source of info for this?

dan

 

[jcusey]

thanks for all the replies, it has certainly been educational. As for whether or not I will get the shoes, I am just not sure. I know its beautiful leather, but it just seems a bit flashy for me.

Well, if you're not sure, it might be better not to order them. I don't know what a pair of crocodile EG shoes would cost, but it's got to be over $2000. It would be a shame to spend so much and end up with a pair of shoes that you don't want to wear.

 

[LabelKing]

I believe the best is Porosus crocodile. Hermes uses it for their iconic Kelly, Birkin bags. And the scales are quite small.

 

[AlanC]

For those who need an instant croc fix, STP has a couple of RL croc shoes:

and

Of course, they're $650.