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Crockett & Jones Snowdon quality question - HELP!

Discussion in 'Menswear Advice' started by SvelteDave, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. SvelteDave

    SvelteDave Active Member

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    To begin, as this is my first post:
    Hello to all fellow StyleForum members! As a long time reader it’s great to be part of the community. [​IMG]

    Now to get started, first a bit of background (which you can skip haha):
    I have been wearing/buying Crockett & Jones shoes for most of my life, with the first pair purchased when I was 13, and I still have some pairs that were made for me when I was a teen. However I would always purchase direct in the Jermyn St store, either off the rack or made to measure but also picked up there. However since have moved abroad a couple years ago I don’t make my way there as often as I would do which prompted me to make a mail order.
    As the winter here got quite serious, -20C and about a meter of snow, and not having any boots suited for the task, I decided to order a pair of the Snowdon boots, and a couple other pairs but these arrived in fine condition.

    And so to the problem I find myself in:

    So the order arrived yesterday (not very speedily I might add as I paid for the order last Sunday night, so after 10 days, which is a bit off for a european delivery with UPS). Anyways I was very disheartened when I looked at the Snowdons:
    • The leather looked more soft/fragile, almost unwaxed (especially compared to my fathers pair of Snowdons)
    • There was wrinkling on the outside of the vamp.
    • Some of the welting seemed to me coming apart in the right shoe, it is very soft near the top, almost like wet cardboard, and I can push it up/into it without any force at all
    • And worst of all both boots had dents on their toe caps.
    I made some pictures and sent them to Pernilla and got a reply today:
    • The leather is indeed different as they changed last year - alright seems plausible
    • The wrinkling/creasing “is cosmetic and is due to the leather being slightly softer and does sometimes occur when the uppers are pulled back from the linings before being hand lasted” - an odd explanation to say the least, regardless of how soft the leather is I would expect it to be precisely pulled, especially in a 500 odd pound pair of boots.
    • She admitted the welts look like they have not been waxed properly - again not what I would expect from a 500 pound shoe
    • As to the dents she said it is hard to judge from the photos.
    All in all I was given a choice of a small discount (around 40 pound) or returning the shoes for exchange (with no mention on who covers the costs)
    I have made a few more photos of the toecaps with white paper covering the welt so as to make the dents more visible when viewed from the top: I think it is quite clear that the line of the toecaps isn’t smooth and round but jagged/dented. When making the pictures I have also noticed that between the very bottom of the toecap and the welt there is ‘excess’ leather, that is to say it can be clearly seen where the toecap ends but the welt does not start there, this can be seen in the pictures, and again this is something I have never seen before.

    I want to ask all shoe aficionados here, especially those of you who have a pair of Snowdons:
    with the description above, and the pictures attached here, is this a well made pair of boots up to standard or unacceptable quality for a full priced shoe? And what would you do in my place, take the 40 odd quid or excahnge? And if exchange do you feel I should cover the cost of the exchange?


    Thank you in advance for your time in reading this and your help.

    All the best,

    David


    And here are the photographs.

    The dents:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The 'extra' leather between the end of the toecap and the welt:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The creasing/wrinkling:

    [​IMG]

    The inadequately waxed welts:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017

  2. budapest12

    budapest12 Distinguished Member

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    DELETE
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017

  3. mdubya

    mdubya Senior Member

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    No idea what the concern is with the toe cap bumps or the welt, but that "extra" leather where the toe and the welt meet is weird and in my opinion not acceptable.i would exchange them.
     

  4. othertravel

    othertravel Distinguished Member

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    I'm not sure about the dents either, but the extra leather does look weird. Regarding the leather, do you think they're using cheaper leather?
     

  5. SvelteDave

    SvelteDave Active Member

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    Well.... that is a difficult question.. when I look at my fathers pair the leather certainly looks much less hardy and robust, it, again compared to my fathers pair, does not seem waxed and is softer. To be quite honest, although perhaps a bit unfair, at first look the leather reminded me of leather used on Zara shoes or the like, especially compared to a pair of Grasmeres and Seymoures that wear also in the order. So as a knee jerk response I would say that the leather used not appears cheaper to my eye compared to the leather used in my fathers pair .
     

  6. SvelteDave

    SvelteDave Active Member

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    The main problem I have with the welt is that the top say three mm are soft, like wet cardboard, and I can push it up/into it with my finger without any force. This isn't the case with any other pair of Crockett or quality shoes I own.

    And I would you think that given the condition I should be the one to cover the costs of the exchange? I mean if I simply changed my mind about the purchase or colour ot whatever it is obvious I should pay that cost but this is more of a quality issue no?
     

  7. budapest12

    budapest12 Distinguished Member

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    ^ Now I understand the issue. If the leather doesn't feel like it can handle the elements, I'd return them. Seems like a problem. Earlier comment withdrawn.
     

  8. mdubya

    mdubya Senior Member

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    I would expect them to cover the cost of the exchange because at the bare minimum from the pictures, the toe area where the upper meets the welt is defective.
     

  9. zag73

    zag73 Senior Member

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    The dents wouldn't bother me but the welt looks terrible. Going by the pictures, I'm surprised they were allowed out of the factory. If it makes you feel better, I recently received my MTO boots and the height was 10mm higher than the same boots I have in a different colour. The left foot also feels bigger than my existing pair. The only thing I was offered was an insole to put in them. The boots cost over £650. Very disappointing. Absolutely gutted. Won't be buying any more MTO in future. To be honest, there have been a few instances lately of people having problems. I'm wondering whether they're having QC issues.
     

  10. zag73

    zag73 Senior Member

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    You may want to post your pics on the main C&J page. You'll get more responses/views.
     

  11. SvelteDave

    SvelteDave Active Member

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    I have that suspicion as well. I haven't purchased anything from Crockett for about 5 years now ever since I moved from London, but mainly because I already have over ten pair from them purchased over the years and have other labels besides, however my father orders a couple pair a year as Crockett is all he wears, and he has been complaining about slight fitting issues on both off the rack and MTM (!) shoes in the past two years or so, which I kind of casually dismissed as there is no way to verify but have never seen something like I have on these Snowdons.
     

  12. zag73

    zag73 Senior Member

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    They told me 10mm deviation was acceptable. To put it into context, the 10mm represents 10% more than my existing pair. Also, by telling me to put in an inner sole, they're indirectly admitting the fit isn't right. It's a botch solution. Like I said, no more MTO for me. I'd also have to think twice about whether I'd buy from them again. Any experience with Edward Green or George Cleverly? They more expensive but price is similar if comparing C&J MTOs.
     

  13. SvelteDave

    SvelteDave Active Member

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    Exactly like telling me that the welt is not waxed properly and I should go to the cobbler to get the welt rewaxed, I mean seriously? I have to get my boots fixed right out of the box and thats supposed to be normal?

    No experience with George Cleverly but have purchased two pairs from Edward Green in the past year and have not noticed anything out of place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017

  14. zag73

    zag73 Senior Member

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    I agree.
     

  15. Gerry

    Gerry Senior Member

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    The bumps are neither here or there and I certainly would not return them due to that. The part of the boot where the welt meets the stitching does look odd and is certainly different than my Coniston boots, however I looked at a pair of Snowdons online(http://www.crockettandjones.com/Product/Snowdon-Oak) and it does appear from the picture that that is the way they finish that particular boot. The Conistons have a piece of leather going around the boot above the stitching so there is no gap like you see in the Snowdons but this does appear to be the style of that boot. C&J are a good company and will exchange but you may receive a similar pair of boots if you do exchange them.
     

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