Crockett & Jones Portman

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Golf_Nerd, Jul 26, 2008.

  1. Golf_Nerd

    Golf_Nerd Senior member

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    Hello,

    yesterday I visited my local retailer (my fault). He sold me a pair of Crockett & Jones Portman in black. My first pair of Crockett & Jones and my first monk. I love em.

    Here is the information printed in:

    PORTMAN
    5156 12 10 1/2 E X46957

    What does this mean?
    What last is it?

    I can't find them on the Crockett & Jones homepage (and now I know that they have some more shoes which I would like to have, too). Are they discontinued?

    Were they handgrade?

    The soles look amazing, too. They are finished in black and dark brown.

    What do you think: is it a good chioce?

    Yours
    GN
     


  2. Baron

    Baron Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I love the Portman. I think it's been made on a few different lasts. The first time I saw it, Sysdoc post a (copywritten!) photo and it was on the 337 last. More recently, I've seen it on the 350, and now it's listed on the C&J Paris website on the 358. I think I'd call it more of a buckle loafer than a true monk. I thnk of a monk as a derby with a buckle closure, but the Portman to me looks like the Kempton with a slim strap over the top. [​IMG]
     


  3. speedster.8

    speedster.8 Senior member

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    Hello, yesterday I visited my local retailer (my fault). He sold me a pair of Crockett & Jones Portman in black. My first pair of Crockett & Jones and my first monk. I love em. Here is the information printed in: PORTMAN 5156 12 10 1/2 E X46957 What does this mean? What last is it? I can't find them on the Crockett & Jones homepage (and now I know that they have some more shoes which I would like to have, too). Are they discontinued? Were they handgrade? The soles look amazing, too. They are finished in black and dark brown. What do you think: is it a good chioce? Yours GN
    In the current C&J cat they are listed as HG on the 337 last, anyway the sixe seems to be 10,5E. But as i find no reference to Barons last numbers or 337 I cant say more. There are surely more knowledgeble members here. 12 could be the german market but im just guessing ...
     


  4. Golf_Nerd

    Golf_Nerd Senior member

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    In the current C&J cat they are listed as HG on the 337 last, anyway the sixe seems to be 10,5E. But as i find no reference to Barons last numbers or 337 I cant say more. There are surely more knowledgeble members here.
    12 could be the german market but im just guessing ...


    Thanks!

    Is there a reference to read this: 5156 12 10 1/2 E X46957 ?

    Are there complete CJ catalogues online?
     


  5. slt

    slt Active Member

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    5156 is the no. of the model, Portman in this case.

    12 is the no. of the color, black in this case.

    10 1/2 is the size.

    E is the width.

    Not sure what the X46957 stands for; but I would guess it's some kind of serial no.
     


  6. Golf_Nerd

    Golf_Nerd Senior member

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    5156 is the no. of the model, Portman in this case.

    12 is the no. of the color, black in this case.

    10 1/2 is the size.

    E is the width.

    Not sure what the X46957 stands for; but I would guess it's some kind of serial no.


    Thanks,

    I found them on the french CJ homepage:

    http://www.crockettandjones.fr/catalogue.php?nouv=1

    The referencenumber of the new Portman III is 5450?!
     


  7. speedster.8

    speedster.8 Senior member

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    plal has current (outgoing) and previous cat online.
     


  8. slt

    slt Active Member

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    The referencenumber of the new Portman III is 5450?!

    The Portman III is on the 358 last.

    As previously mentioned here, the Portman has also been made on both the 337 and 350 lasts, and these two versions would have had different model numbers.

    So yours must be on either the 337 or the 350. It should be quite easy to see which one it is.
     


  9. citoyen

    citoyen Senior member

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    golf nerd, it would be interesting to know which german dealer sells the "french" c&j models. so where did you buy them? in stuttgart? i do not think that the local breuninger sells these models...

    thanks in advance
     


  10. Josef Seibel

    Josef Seibel Senior member

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    ja, golf, i´m dying to know. please tell us about your dealer.
     


  11. Golf_Nerd

    Golf_Nerd Senior member

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    golf nerd, it would be interesting to know which german dealer sells the "french" c&j models. so where did you buy them? in stuttgart? i do not think that the local breuninger sells these models...

    thanks in advance


    Hello citoyen,

    I bought these shoes in Stuttgart at Tizian (auf der Koenigstrasse). Tiazian has CJ, Churchs, Dinkelacker, Ludwig Reiter, AE, Lendvay&Schwartz and many others

    I don't know anything about CJ. But the shoes I bought are only on the french CJ homepage (I can't find them somewhere else). So are they french?

    And whats the clue about the model number? Mine are 5156. On internet there are only 5150!

    I would love to get more information about CJ. Which lasts do they have (and where is the difference between). What is the difference between handgrade and the ohters ...

    Yours GN
     


  12. citoyen

    citoyen Senior member

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    thanks gn.

    some basic information about c&j:
    they are one of the northampton shoe factories and produce mainly two lines of shoes under their own label
    a) benchgrade models
    b) handgrade models
    c) they are said to produce shoes for brooks brothers, ralph lauren and for certain retailers such as ben silver and their like to different specifications (e.g. the aforementioned handgrade/benchgrade specs.)

    the main differences between the handgrade and benchgrade line are the tunneled sole stiching, a different lining and the amount of antiquing aka elbow grease put in the finishing of the colour. perhaps i missed one or another point. but the most important difference is that certain lasts are restricted to the handgrade level shoes such as the 337 last (almost every shoe out of handgrade line is formed on that last, except for one or two loafers and a discontinued oxford on the 330 last - a rounded toe last)

    the "french" models are the ones pictured on the french c&j site. they are more pointy/sleek and some would say a little more fashion forward. i like them very much from the pictures. by now i haven´t had the chance to touch one. these "french" shoes normally are not retailed other than in paris, that is why i asked you.
    perhaps the tizian shop ordered your shoes as a special order for the shop -which requires a minimum order of 6 shoes- that might be the reason they had it.

    so far, others may chime in and complete my sermon.

    citoyen
     


  13. Golf_Nerd

    Golf_Nerd Senior member

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    thanks gn ...

    ... the "french" models are the ones pictured on the french c&j site. they are more pointy/sleek and some would say a little more fashion forward. i like them very much ...

    citoyen


    Hello,

    and thanks for providing information.

    My impression was the same. They are some kind of fashion forward (which I am slightly). Because of that challenge I bought them.

    Ok, it's only shoes. But it struck me!

    GN
     


  14. Golf_Nerd

    Golf_Nerd Senior member

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    ja, golf, i´m dying to know. please tell us about your dealer.
    Hello Josef, there is an old (I think) italian working. And some ladies. From time to time I visit the store. I never bought shoes by one of the ladies. When I met him, I tell him the problems: - I don't give a sh*t on brands (but his shop has only the best brands) - the shoes must look brilliant on me and the kind of suits I wear - the shoes must be comfortable, because I wear them while work for 10-12 hours - should not brake the 300 Euro mark (including shoe trees and cream) With all that high quality shoes he sells, it is nearly impossible to get away with a good looking pair and not spending serveral hundreds more. So we are talking. He askes me for what kind of ocasion I need these shoes. And I give some more information. While talking I walk up and down the showroom and ask frequently: "What's about them?". Sometimes his reponse is: "Oh, man, you don't know anything about shoes, do you?!" And what can I say. [​IMG] Then he dissapears for two or three minutes to the stock and comes back with another attempt/ bargain. And finally I find shoes I never thought of. I really enjoy it and learned so much about shoes. Everytime I meet him he sells me a pair of shoes. OK, this time I spent more, but I am proud of (live and let live?!). Yours GN
     


  15. slt

    slt Active Member

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    And whats the clue about the model number? Mine are 5156. On internet there are only 5150!

    Just to try to be a bit more clear about the different versions of the Portman.

    The one listed on the French site is named Portman III, has the model no. 5450 and is on the 358 last.

    Since yours are model no. 5156, I thinks it's safe to assume that they are not the same version as the one on the French site, but rather one of the versions on either the 337 last or the 350 last.

    If you look at the Shoe Pictorial Index http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=33612 under the C&J section, you can see several examples on the 337 and the 350 lasts; e.g. the two Balmuir versions. And I would gather that your version is one of those two lasts.

    To add a bit to the confusion, there is also a picture of a Portman on the 350 last, and as far as I can see, this picture is identical to the one on the French site, which could lead one to believe, that when they put the Portman III on their site, it was so new that they didn't have a proper picture yet, so they just used an old picture of the 350 version [​IMG]
     


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